Absolutely Furious !!!!!

[pipejockey]

It's time to let ALPA wither from the vine! You guys should just stop paying your 2%. We as pilots have taken extraordinary pay cuts and these menial office workers, that can be replaced with just about anyone with half a brain, not only reject any talk of paycuts for themselves, but flat out refuse a contract that contains a 3% pay INCREASE, fica taxes being offset for those earning less than 59K, 35 hour work week, ability to retire at 58, healthcare after retirement, etc etc etc. ARE YOU GUYS CRAZY??

Why have we had pay cuts forced down our throats? Because our companies are not bringing in the revenues they used to? Well ALPA is not taking in the revenues they used to either as our pay has been cut to the bone. It's time to force some concessions to the ass clowns at ALPA who think they are more valuable than they are. Any one of us could take their jobs immediately, they could not do the same with ours.

Wake up folks. As much as I hate to say it, it's time for some good ole union busting. But only to replace it with another one that will work in our best interests, and one that will have their successes tied to our successes.

STOP PAYING YOUR ALPO DUES!! before you know it ALPO will be raising the dues to 2.5 or 3% to keep their office workers happy. And based on what I have seen from pilot group after pilot group the last 5 years, the increase will be accomadted by us...shameful!!!

 

[Ty Webb]

All this jibberish of what we ALPA members should do coming from an Air Tran pilot. Why don't you "STFU". You clean your house, and we will take care of our own. This is not your fight, so stay out of it.

Looks like you need all the help you can get, if there are more like you in the ranks. Let's hear your take on it, genius . . . and while you're at it, pray tell what airline employs such a consumate aviator as yourself.


.



.

 

[Bosley]

Looks like you need all the help you can get, if there are more like you in the ranks. Let's hear your take on it, genius . . . and while you're at it, pray tell what airline employs such a consumate aviator as yourself.

Ty:
This tool is just einstein/chuck/lawman/texas jock strap reincarnate! How long before this character gets banned! He's a flight attendant for Skyway airlines.
Hey boris/einstein/ how nice of you to put a baby as your avatar! Its typical for you! Now run off you crybaby!

 

[Flopgut]

How about XJT's 2004 contract?

Thats right! You did get a pretty good deal. That gives me an idea. Lets settle this deal and pay them what they want. Then before the ink is dry, lets find a new union with more favorable costs and leave ALPA. Afterall, with the beating we have all taken over the past few years, do you really want your dues to go up to support admin staff raking in these dollars? No way!

If they can't see the need to live in an equal market with their customers (us) then they can dust off the resume and hit the road.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

I've explained it to you three times. If you still don't understand why spending YOUR dues to support these idiots while your ALPA brethren are furloughed, then you are obviously way too stupid to spend any more time discussing this subject with.

I'm not an ALPA pilot, you are. Maybe you are getting what you deserve . . . and who am I to interfere with that? Good luck and enjoy.

PS, Any truth to the rumor on this message board that guys who use the same avatar as you are a bunch of pillow-biting, hamster-hiding Nancy boys? Because that's what I hear. Hope that's not true, but if it is, I guess you're getting what you deserve.uke:

Keep your eye on the ball Ty.... Focus on the issue. You may (not) have noticed that I have not used any personal attacks or insults. Stay with me on this issue Ty.

What do you call advocating a worker to REPLACE an unionized employee on strike? I call that scabbing. What do you call it?




Instructions for Ty Webb and other debate challenged individuals.

1. Point and click on quote
2. Delete all except bold face font. THIS IS CRITICAL TO STICKING TO THE ISSUE.
3. Doing your very very very best, type a repsonse to the bold type words. You can say whatever you like, but effective debate depends on you adressing the issue.
4. Don't deviate form the issue.
5. Remain with the issue.
6. Review your response.
7. Does it remain commited to the issue?
8. Do something else for a period of time. Return.
9. With a fresh perspective, does it remain commited to the issue?
10. Place your cursor over "Submit"
11. Extra credit. Pray and hope that it really does stick to the issue.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Thats right! You did get a pretty good deal. That gives me an idea. Lets settle this deal and pay them what they want. Then before the ink is dry, lets find a new union with more favorable costs and leave ALPA. Afterall, with the beating we have all taken over the past few years, do you really want your dues to go up to support admin staff raking in these dollars? No way!

If they can't see the need to live in an equal market with their customers (us) then they can dust off the resume and hit the road.

Of course...what many fail to realize is that ALPA has reduced its staff employee expense significantly from 2003 to 2005.

Since 2003...

• 64 employee positions have been cut from the payroll
• Total employee costs have been reduced from $5.5 million down or 12.5%
• From 2003 to 2005 ALPA had a 25% reduction in dues, or $34 million annually
• Operating liquidity (cash reserves) have increased by 300% since 2000
• Major Continency Fund grew from $68 million to $84 million since 2000

 

[Flopgut]

Of course...what many fail to realize is that ALPA has reduced its staff employee expense significantly from 2003 to 2005.

Since 2003...

• 64 employee positions have been cut from the payroll
• Total employee costs have been reduced from $5.5 million down or 12.5%
• From 2003 to 2005 ALPA had a 25% reduction in dues, or $34 million annually
• Operating liquidity (cash reserves) have increased by 300% since 2000
• Major Continency Fund grew from $68 million to $84 million since 2000

I can see why you are happy with ALPA. Your career has improved, but who else's has? Pretty much nobody! ALPA staff enjoying the sort of fringe benefits reserved for royalty is a slap in the face to nearly every pilot paying dues. Your info above is meaningless. We aren't all out here working at this to see if we can groom the perfect professional association. They work for us! ALPA is our agent for CB services and they can be replaced.

I am not cheap. If I see value in something I'll pay a higher price. (value not in price principal) Conversely, if I see something that is inordinately expensive that can't perform, I don't want any part of it. I think a lot of pilots understand that.

If you had taken the paycut I recently did, you would be humming a different tune.

 

[Lame Lizard]

Ty:
This tool is just einstein/chuck/lawman/texas jock strap reincarnate! How long before this character gets banned! He's a flight attendant for Skyway airlines.
Hey boris/einstein/ how nice of you to put a baby as your avatar! Its typical for you! Now run off you crybaby!

Tell me Bosley, when have you posted anything positive? Why do you think everyone who post and disagrees with you is this so called chuck/lawman? You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder. You say he is a "coward". Does this mean you have made threats against him? HMMMM?

 

[Ty Webb]

So, Rez:

Since you avoided answering the question, guess we can take that as a "yes" . . . . . you are indeed a pillow-biting gerbil-hiding nancy-boy. . . . not that there's anything wrong with that . No wonder you are such a mindless ALPA follower . . . . you are used to bending over.

 

[Ty Webb]

I am a due paying member of ALPA. Are you? So again, in your own words, just "STFU".

Hey, Chuck/Lawman/TexasJockrot . . . I see that regardless of your screen name, you still lack the mental capacity to intelligently debate any subject. Shut your pie hole, or we'll have the moderator check your ip address, and ban you for good, Chuckie-Boy.

 

[Bosley]

Tell me Bosley, when have you posted anything positive? Why do you think everyone who post and disagrees with you is this so called chuck/lawman? You seem to have a big chip on your shoulder. You say he is a "coward". Does this mean you have made threats against him? HMMMM?

Don't you ever get tired of creating all these user accounts?
You need to get a grip on something other than your pants pocket!

 

[Ty Webb]

You know the answer, Chuckie/Lawman/Boris, and you know it isn't relevant. I have a right to express my opinion, whether you like it or not.

What's really funny about you, Chuckie, is that you don't seem to ever have any particular knowlege, insight, or anything to add to any of these discussions. All you do, and all you have done, since you first appeared on this board, is insult people until you get banned. You really thrive on negative attention, don't you?

You must be one unhappy guy, or one very immature little man . . . never a good thing to say about anyone, or anything. I guess we know what it was like growing up in your house. Maybe your old man smacked you around a little too much, huh? Or are you just a closet hamster-hiding pole-smoker, like ol' Rez?

 

[flx757]

Just answer the question and quit being a jerk. Are you a dues paying member of ALPA? It's simple. Yes or No? Just answer the question.

Boris Yelling and Lame Lizard are Chuck Yogurt, Lawman, Einstein and Texas Jet Jock.

 

[instructordude]

Boris Yelling and Lame Lizard are Chuck Yogurt, Lawman, Einstein and Texas Jet Jock.

How do you know??? Are you a stalker???

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can see why you are happy with ALPA. Your career has improved, but who else's has? Pretty much nobody! .

Why is it ALPA's responsibility to provide for your career? Where does your company come into play?

ALPA simply negotiates a percentage of what available.....

 

[Lame Lizard]

Boris Yelling and Lame Lizard are Chuck Yogurt, Lawman, Einstein and Texas Jet Jock.

Yeh, I am all of them. And you are Bessie the cow.

 

[Bosley]

Boris Yelling and Lame Lizard are Chuck Yogurt, Lawman, Einstein and Texas Jet Jock.

It's too bad the moderators can't see that the IP address for all these user names are the same!
Lame lizard! HA! Too bad he didn't use his real name----->Limp D*@K!

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I can see why you are happy with ALPA. Your career has improved, but who else's has? Pretty much nobody! ALPA staff enjoying the sort of fringe benefits reserved for royalty is a slap in the face to nearly every pilot paying dues. Your info above is meaningless. We aren't all out here working at this to see if we can groom the perfect professional association. They work for us! ALPA is our agent for CB services and they can be replaced.

I am not cheap. If I see value in something I'll pay a higher price. (value not in price principal) Conversely, if I see something that is inordinately expensive that can't perform, I don't want any part of it. I think a lot of pilots understand that.

The info above is not "meaningless." Facts are facts. People are upset about how much we pay those admin folks yet from the information I gave it is clear that ALPA is indeed reducing costs where possible. Their compensation/benefits structure will be bargained through the legal channels but the one thing ALPA can do is reduce headcount (especially at the top end of the pay scale) which they seem to be doing. Seems to me that ALPA "management" was being fiscally responsible by not simply agreeing to Unit 2's demands. We shall see what happens with this latest TA. My guess is that no new money was added and the deck chairs were rearranged.

If you had taken the paycut I recently did, you would be humming a different tune.

Let's see, I just took a $70,000 pay cut to leave XJT for CAL. I think I know exactly what you are feeling. However, CAL is the best passenger carrier out there right as far as financial stability, business plan, growth, and retirements. I wasn't there for the concessionary agreement but it was voted in by the majority (for better or worse) and it is time to move on and enforce the new agreement and make it better when possible.

It also seems to me that due to all of these concessionary agreements and the downsizing of these pilot groups that ALPA is doing its part to reduce employee headcount where possible and increase cash when possible. What is wrong with that again?

 

[Ty Webb]

Tell me Mr. Ty, who is insulting who in this thread? Again, in your own words, "STFU."

Forget it Chuckie . . . . you've been spotted. It doesn't take long to figure out who you are on this board. I'm betting you're outta here in less than a week.

 

[Flopgut]

It also seems to me that due to all of these concessionary agreements and the downsizing of these pilot groups that ALPA is doing its part to reduce employee headcount where possible and increase cash when possible. What is wrong with that again?

Your characterization of the fundamentals is just polishing a turd. ALPA has put precious little up in the "win" column. They are a very expensive non performer. If Unit 2 can continue to enjoy pay levels that don't match ALPA's reality then they are not trending positive quick enough.

Congratulations on your new job. I hope it continues to be what you are hoping for. You and I both made a similiar monetary sacrifices to be here. I have 10 years and I get less sure this will pay off by the day. Who told you this was the "best passenger airline for financial stability, business plan, growth and retirements?" Because I heard the same thing when I made the jump and I'd like to find that guy and kick him in the seeds!

Why don't you run for rep? I think I'd like to vote for you.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your characterization of the fundamentals is just polishing a turd. ALPA has put precious little up in the "win" column. They are a very expensive non performer. If Unit 2 can continue to enjoy pay levels that don't match ALPA's reality then they are not trending positive quick enough..?"

All you statement says is, if I am miserable, then they must be miserable.

I just don't get it as to why you guys don't get it.....


We are getting the snot kicked out of us, yet you guys expect ALPA to create smooth sailing amongst the Perfect Storm.

The cow (industry) is very sick yet you still insist that ALPA make the cow deliver its sweet milk....

 

[Flopgut]

Why is it ALPA's responsibility to provide for your career? Where does your company come into play?

ALPA simply negotiates a percentage of what available.....

ALPA is very expensive. Are we getting our money's worth? I don't think so. ALPA services need to either get better, or become less expensive. They need to deliver on something.

 

[Flopgut]

All you statement says is, if I am miserable, then they must be miserable.

I just don't get it as to why you guys don't get it.....


We are getting the snot kicked out of us, yet you guys expect ALPA to create smooth sailing amongst the Perfect Storm.

The cow (industry) is very sick yet you still insist that ALPA make the cow deliver its sweet milk....

Again, I just want my monies worth. This isn't personal, I don't want anyone to suffer. With their budget, I want demostratively superior service from ALPA. They aren't delivering, and in that case they should be demonstratively cheaper than alternatives.

The "cow" industry? Beef industry. When beef got kicked in the groin by Oprah they took her to court and won. (and inadvertantly gave us all Dr. Phil) Beef puts bumper stickers on cars, gets on the radio, TV and puts out a message. They fight Canadian (and other) imports. They are a truley powerful lobby that fights vehemently for their constituents. And make no mistake, those constituents would not tolerate "ALPA like" representation for a second. The beef industry has taken a beating for a long time, but at least they fight back!

 

[Ty Webb]

You know who I work for Chief, so why are you screaming like a schoolgirl?

SO, Chuckie/Lawman/TexasJockrot/Boris- who do you work for? Skyways is my guess, although you could also be some flight-school putz. Either way, you've got a lot of growsing up to do.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Again, I just want my monies worth. This isn't personal, I don't want anyone to suffer. With their budget, I want demostratively superior service from ALPA. They aren't delivering, and in that case they should be demonstratively cheaper than alternatives.

First you have to realize value. Check this out....

Mesaba Airline pilots are gratified by the bankruptcy court's May 18 decision denying Mesaba management's 1113(c) motion to reject their contract. Pilots say that during the 15 days of lengthy testimony in this case, Mesaba failed to satisfy the legal elements required to obtain relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
"I'm sure that every Mesaba pilot is breathing a sigh of relief over yesterday's announcement," says Capt. Tom Wychor, Mesaba MEC chairman. "All along, ALPA requested information that would allow us to assess management's requests. The court agreed that information wasn't provided. Moreover, ALPA believed, and still believes, that management doesn't need the drastic pay and benefit cuts it requested."

​

To have the ability to legally win this fight is priceless. I support Unit I and II at ALPA. If you don't understand what I am talking about then read up before judgement is passed.

Congrats to Mesaba. BTW What does Paul Foley do?

The "cow" industry? Beef industry. When beef got kicked in the groin by Oprah they took her to court and won. (and inadvertantly gave us all Dr. Phil) Beef puts bumper stickers on cars, gets on the radio, TV and puts out a message. They fight Canadian (and other) imports. They are a truley powerful lobby that fights vehemently for their constituents. And make no mistake, those constituents would not tolerate "ALPA like" representation for a second. The beef industry has taken a beating for a long time, but at least they fight back!

And yet ALPA took Mesaba to court and won and all you can do is talk about beef.

 

[rtmcfi]

Again, I just want my monies worth. This isn't personal, I don't want anyone to suffer. With their budget, I want demostratively superior service from ALPA. They aren't delivering, and in that case they should be demonstratively cheaper than alternatives.

The "cow" industry? Beef industry. When beef got kicked in the groin by Oprah they took her to court and won. (and inadvertantly gave us all Dr. Phil) Beef puts bumper stickers on cars, gets on the radio, TV and puts out a message. They fight Canadian (and other) imports. They are a truley powerful lobby that fights vehemently for their constituents. And make no mistake, those constituents would not tolerate "ALPA like" representation for a second. The beef industry has taken a beating for a long time, but at least they fight back!

Your beef industry / ALPA comparisons are more on the money than you realize. You could also compare beef checkoff fees to union dues and agency shop regulations. The recent lawsuits from small beef producers kind of parallels the RJDC. Interesting stuff.

 

[Flopgut]

Your beef industry / ALPA comparisons are more on the money than you realize. You could also compare beef checkoff fees to union dues and agency shop regulations. The recent lawsuits from small beef producers kind of parallels the RJDC. Interesting stuff.

Yeah thanks. I would take Beef industry activism over the ALPA active lack challenge anyday.

Whats fascinating about a guy like Rez (and it highlights most pilots) is he is smart and has strong feelings about ALPA. But his lack of knowledge about the fundamentals of other industries (thinks Beef industry is "cow" business) and how they compare to ours is creating a crisis. ALPA can't make a play.

 

[Bosley]

You know who I work for Chief, so why are you screaming like a schoolgirl?

SO, Chuckie/Lawman/TexasJockrot/Boris- who do you work for? Skyways is my guess, although you could also be some flight-school putz. Either way, you've got a lot of growsing up to do.

Ty:
Einstein/chuck/boris/limp lizard/texas croch rot works for Skyway. He goes around telling everyone he fly's for Midwest. He's nothing but a scared little child!

 

[Flopgut]

First you have to realize value. Check this out....

Mesaba Airline pilots are gratified by the bankruptcy court's May 18 decision denying Mesaba management's 1113(c) motion to reject their contract. Pilots say that during the 15 days of lengthy testimony in this case, Mesaba failed to satisfy the legal elements required to obtain relief under the Bankruptcy Code.
"I'm sure that every Mesaba pilot is breathing a sigh of relief over yesterday's announcement," says Capt. Tom Wychor, Mesaba MEC chairman. "All along, ALPA requested information that would allow us to assess management's requests. The court agreed that information wasn't provided. Moreover, ALPA believed, and still believes, that management doesn't need the drastic pay and benefit cuts it requested."


​

To have the ability to legally win this fight is priceless. I support Unit I and II at ALPA. If you don't understand what I am talking about then read up before judgement is passed.

Congrats to Mesaba. BTW What does Paul Foley do?



And yet ALPA took Mesaba to court and won and all you can do is talk about beef.

So ALPA is only capable of being a firewall between the smallest percentage of pilots and an exaggerated destruction? Come on! I know thats good for them but I want more action than that! This is the major leagues, not T-ball.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Your beef industry / ALPA comparisons are more on the money than you realize. You could also compare beef checkoff fees to union dues and agency shop regulations. The recent lawsuits from small beef producers kind of parallels the RJDC. Interesting stuff.

Agreed.....

Then again beef is required for survival. It is food. Airline transportation while vital is not like food, shelter and clothing.

Meaning... the beef industry has more clout simply because people need to eat. Eat or die works, but fly or die doesn't.....

It is very grey....