? about the Glideslope

[SBD]

Recently I was landing at RDU. I noticed the glideslope was telling me that I was coming in low. But the VASI/PAPI was indicating that I was right on the mark. As I got to about 50 feet above the TDZE, the 'helpful voice told me Glideslope,' but the VASI/PAPI said I was right on path. Has anyone had this situation b4? At no time did the Captain step in, nor did he say anything to me after the landing. Is it the aircraft/airport landing system? Or do I just suck balls and need to improve my skills. I'm still relatively new to the a/c.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Is there a note on the approach plate stating something to the affect that the GS and Visual GS are not "the same"??

 

[cwebster2]

you know that note on the approach plate or notams that says "GLIDESLOPE AND VGSI NOT COINCIDENT"? well, that means exactly what it says, the glideslope and the visual glideslope indications (PAPI, VASI, etc) are not the same.

 

[deadstick]

Wouldn't it also depend on how high your eyes were above the GS receiver antenna?

 

[Apache 5]

Dont know about the specifics of the situation, but an ILS GS would obviously be much more precise than a PAPI/VASI...i.e. 2 red/ 2 white on a PAPI doesnt always mean you are right on glideslope per the gs antenna...but, I wouldnt think you could get an aural warning from the aircraft if you were 2 red/ 2 white....

 

[DrewBlows]

Was it this procedure? Check out the note in the bottom right-hand corner of the profile view.

Who cares? Wheels hit TDZ = good landing.

 

[rjacobs]

I would say the same as everybody else, probably they are not coincidental and it probably says so on the chart. Also, who the hell could fly with a NOS(or what ever that piece of crap is) chart instead of Jepp, there is crap everywhere on that chart and in no particular order, way to confusing if you ask me.

 

[twighead]

This is not uncommon. I can think of 2 right off the top of my head where the electronic GS says your low when the PAPI shows 2 red / 2 white: ILS 4 LGA and ILS 33R BWI. I'm sure there are many others out there.

 

[paulsalem]

Check your NOTAMS. I don't trust our dispatchers.

!FDC 7/2584 (KRDU A0042/07) RDU FI/T RALEIGH-DURHAM INTL, RALEIGH/DURHAM, NC. ILS OR LOC RWY 23R, AMDT 10... S-LOC 23R MDA 900/HAT 491 ALL CATS, VIS CAT C RVR 4000, CAT D RVR 5000. CHANGE PROFILE TO READ: MINIMUM ALTITUDE AT GIYEP 1160. ADD NOTE: VDP NA. ADD PROFILE NOTE: VGSI AND ILS GLIDEPATH NOT COINCIDENT.

!FDC 7/2575 (KRDU A0040/07) RDU FI/T RALEIGH-DURHAM INTL, RALEIGH/DURHAM, NC. ILS RWY 5L, AMDT 4B... S-ILS 5L DA 676/HAT 291 ALL CATS, UNLESS OTHERWISE ADVISED BY ATC. ADD PROFILE NOTE: VGSI AND ILS GLIDEPATH NOT COINCIDENT. TEMPORARY CRANE 606 MSL 2726 FT NE OF RWY 5L.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

I would say the same as everybody else, probably they are not coincidental and it probably says so on the chart. Also, who the hell could fly with a NOS(or what ever that piece of crap is) chart instead of Jepp, there is crap everywhere on that chart and in no particular order, way to confusing if you ask me.

Actually, after using them for a week, they are easier to read and have the added benefit of having no updates. You just throw out the whole book and replace it with a new one. They are also easier to read at night in dim light. I learned to fly on Jepp, went to NOS at my first company, and now back to Jepp. There is no difference once you get used to them.

 

[nethan]

This brings up a good question...

The ILS 23 in CLT is like this. If you are on the GS you are *normally* 3 white. If you follow the VASI, the airplane will yell at you as the GS goes out the top. The problem of course is that if you DO follow the GS you end up slamming into the hump of a crossing runway or landing way down runway. I normally follow the GS until about 1000 feet and then pick up the VASI and land. I even brief it this way. Needless to say, the one time I had a fed in the jumpseat they didn't like this at all.

I haven't been able to find any reference about which is controlling and at what AGL/distance numbers. Anybody got something?

 

[rjacobs]

I want to say I read in an opspec(I know different for every airline) or some FAR that if you have electronic guidance i.e. a GS that you were supposed to follow it even on a visual approach.

 

[Mr Wu]

Another question that should be answered is why is your POS airplane giving you a glideslope warning when you are 100' below DH.

 

[drunkecupirate]

i thought that "cleared for the visual" meant just that. a visual. electronic equipment for reference only. either way one cannot legally be below the vasi until a normal landing can be made.

and i dont know what aircraft is in question here, but the reset jet uses mda, not dh for ils mins (dh tied to rad alt). and since it was built to catII cert, it will give "glideslope" all the way down.

what equipment are we talking about?

 

[veneratio]

This brings up a good question...

The ILS 23 in CLT is like this. If you are on the GS you are *normally* 3 white. If you follow the VASI, the airplane will yell at you as the GS goes out the top. The problem of course is that if you DO follow the GS you end up slamming into the hump of a crossing runway or landing way down runway. I normally follow the GS until about 1000 feet and then pick up the VASI and land. I even brief it this way. Needless to say, the one time I had a fed in the jumpseat they didn't like this at all.

I haven't been able to find any reference about which is controlling and at what AGL/distance numbers. Anybody got something?

If you are doing a VISUAL APPROACH and are either within 5 or 4 miles of the runway and within 10 degrees of the centerline the VASI will provide you with adequate obstacle clearance therefore you can follow it and the fed can't say ********************.

 

[aussieflyboy]

Recently I was landing at RDU. I noticed the glideslope was telling me that I was coming in low. But the VASI/PAPI was indicating that I was right on the mark. As I got to about 50 feet above the TDZE, the 'helpful voice told me Glideslope,' but the VASI/PAPI said I was right on path. Has anyone had this situation b4? At no time did the Captain step in, nor did he say anything to me after the landing. Is it the aircraft/airport landing system? Or do I just suck balls and need to improve my skills. I'm still relatively new to the a/c.

You just suck balls...

 

[pilotyip]

reg says visual or electronic glide slope, little CRM on what glideslope you are using would probably be in order.

 

[SBD]

You just suck balls...

That's what I thought too!

 

[Alchemy]

I really wish the glideslope aural warning would be disabled below decision height. What's the point other than an annoyance.

 

[lindsaya99]

Another question that should be answered is why is your POS airplane giving you a glideslope warning when you are 100' below DH.

Saabs do it. CRJs do it too. Not when I'm PF, but I've seen it done. My question is why shouldn't they give a GS warning at that height?