AAI & WN.....what's that gonna look like?

[Fubijaakr]

One word: staple. And you AirTran pilots will be soooooo lucky that SWA "saved" you and your dismal careers....

What a TOOL!

But not unexpected.

 

[PCL_128]

Please. You know that's not fair. Just as relative seniority with F9 wasn't fair (see below),

Actually, it is, for the exact reasons I stated. DOH is irrelevant.

Even if we did merge with you guys, the SLI scenario would be the same due to the age of the respective airlines. Remember, one of the prime requirements of both ALPA merger/frag AND Allegheny/Mohawk is NO WINDFALLS. A straight ratio SLI merger with EITHER Alaska or SWA would be a huge windfall for AAI pilots.

Where's the windfall? There is none! A pilot that was 5% on their respective list prior is still 5% on the new list. The only way this would represent a windfall would be if there was bigger equipment, which isn't the case with either AS or WN.

Sorry, but I'll never accept any sort of DOH integration until we have a national seniority list. And I can guarantee you, no arbitrator will award what you're suggesting.

ALPA 54,000. The only ones you can count on are the ones that work with you. And then you cannot even depend on all of them. The other 52,500 won't help you. Do you really think that if you took job action the other 53000+ will be behind you.

Such a simple mind. For starters, yes they will be. No ALPA pilot group would fly our struck work. But that's not really the point of having 54,000 strong. The point is that we have pull on Capital Hill, at ICAO, etc... SWAPA does not, and never will. Congress doesn't care what SWAPA thinks. They'll at least stop to listen to what ALPA has to say.

AAI won't be bought by SWA. They will wait until you are on the way out before they would buy your assets.

We aren't going anywhere.

 

[gt1900]

Wait........... Did PCL actually say that the #1 AAI pilot who was hired around 1994 should be senior to the #1 SWA pilot who was hired around 1977? Forgive my ignorance but why should any SWA pilot agree to that? Do you actually think the #1 SWA pilot would accept being JUNIOR to a pilot who was hired by a company almost 17 year later? Like Ron White said.......... You can't fix stupit!

 

[Metrojet]

PCL,

Why would you consider yourself "stuck" with SWAPA? We've got a good group; you'd have more say on your representation; and we represent our pilots well.

As to your "our #1 should go to SWA #1 or 2 is ridiculous. However, putting them more inline with their DOH is more reasonable. Besides, what would be the most senior guy, about a '92/'93 hire? Is it reasonable to expect them to be as senior as our 1974 hire? Our first 1600 folks only go to 1996, so...........what gives? I say feather folks in, but be reasonable. Before you claim we were unreasonable, remember we were only given a short timeframe to negotiate an integration. If you had been in the room during the negotiation, you may change your tune about our "irrational" offer.

Regarding your lack of interest in flying at SWA, why is that? Do you think that all of the banter on this chicke$hit, anonymous board is representative of our pilots? I think we have a good thing going here. No furloughs at WN. No concessions at WN. Great QOL at WN. Pretty good treatment from the company. I know a bunch of your dudes and think they could fit nicely.........why don't you want anything to do with us? After pay, QOL, corporate relationships, indy pilot association with access, and almost no difference in operations; what, exactly, is left to be concerned about?

This sounds very much like an east v west merger, but now it would be a TX v GA battle. Trust me - it ain't going to be fun.

Metrojet

 

[PCL_128]

This sounds very much like an east v west merger, but now it would be a TX v GA battle. Trust me - it ain't going to be fun.

Metrojet

It's never going to happen anyway. Like I said, nothing but mental masturbation. SWA won't be trying to pick up any decent sized carrier.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Spirit or SunCountry! I'm bettin' Spirit.

 

[737 CAPTAIN]

I don't know how senior or junior AAi is , but 60 percent of SWA has been hired in the last 10 years

 

[OK3]

I don't think this will happen either. Having said that I have to ask why type of equipment matters. I think pay is all that matters. I fly for a living, I do not care what type of airplane I fly, only pay and QOL really matter to me. People on this board often repeat that if two airlines fly the same equipment then relative seniority is fair. It is a windfall if two disparate paying airlines merge (but both narrow body) and one group gets a huge raise and the other only gets to keep the seniority they already had.

If two airlines pay the same or almost the same and are both non-bankrupt then relative seniority would be fair. That is my opinion, someone tell me why it is wrong. In addition, pilots must realize that by accepting lower than average pay, they devalue their careers. It will impact them in the event of a merger.

 

[Rickindfw]

One word: staple. And you AirTran pilots will be soooooo lucky that SWA "saved" you and your dismal careers....

Yeah and how many Airtran pilots have been hired or applied at Swa.
Just kidding. I hope it never happens.

 

[firstthird]

how does the current relative career value factor in? as in SWA FOs make more than most Airtran FOs and maybe some captains? any 'retain your seat' or 'relative seniority' would, of necessity, be a windfall for Airtran guys if they get SWA pay scales after this supposed merger?

I don't have an answer, just asking.

 

[bluestreaking]

Is it just me, or it this thread fvcking stupid?

 

[PCL_128]

I think pay is all that matters. I fly for a living, I do not care what type of airplane I fly, only pay and QOL really matter to me.

The QOL that you mention is the key. The only way to maintain QOL is to maintain relative seniority.

 

[maxblast72]

As far as making money you need to look at more than the last year. SWA has a history of profits for the last 35 years. There is no comparison between the two carriers.

I wouldn't say their is no comparison. Airtran has been profitable for 8 of the last 9 years and has grown from 40 airplanes to 140 airplanes under the umbrella of the largest legacy airline hub in the world (Delta operates around 1000 flights a day out of ATL). Both Southwest and Airtran have been very successful finding their place in the domestic market.

Airtran had to make some difficult changes to the business plan last year (including slowing the growth) due to the spike in fuel prices. Those decisions put Airtran is a good position to return to profitability quickly as evidenced by 2009 producing record quarterly profits. Southwest was able to put off their changes until this year since Southwest was somewhat insulated from the higher fuel prices last year.

Either way, both airlines are strong and can coexist in the same marketplace as evidenced in BWI, MDW, and MCO and soon to be in BOS, LGA, and MKE. Southwest has an advantage of a really strong balance sheet with little debt while Airtran has some of the lowest unit costs in the industry. Southwest and Airtran will continue to chip away domestic marketshare from the legacies for many years to come either as a merged company or as independent LCCs.

 

[FL717]

Is it just me, or it this thread fvcking stupid?

No... it's not just you. This thread IS stupid.

I wish my life was so bland, boring, and empty that I could sit online making up imaginary "issues" to argue and name call about. "Issues" that don't even exist, and may not ever.

Then again... I DON'T wish for that kind of life....

 

[Lear70]

Is it just me, or it this thread fvcking stupid?

Yep.

I seriously doubt this will happen anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Widow's Son]

Which union has the national record for being sued by its own affiliates?

Which union has the national record for job actions by its own employees?

Which union has the national record for the most events of an affiliate jumping ship to a competitor?

Which union has signed more concessionary contracts than progressive ones over the last 20 years?

Which union had to sell its headquarters building to fund lawsuit claims?

Which union charges almost twice the amount in dues yet operates on a much lower surplus?

Which union has almost four times the administrative overhead loading before the money can be put to member use?

Which union has had former leaders do jail time?

Which union's executives individually earn almost three times the other's?

>>will not fly struck work<<

Yeah, ask the Comair guys about that.

 

[slaquer5]

Which union has the national record for being sued by its own affiliates?

Which union has the national record for job actions by its own employees?

Which union has the national record for the most events of an affiliate jumping ship to a competitor?

Which union has signed more concessionary contracts than progressive ones over the last 20 years?

Which union had to sell its headquarters building to fund lawsuit claims?

Which union charges almost twice the amount in dues yet operates on a much lower surplus?

Which union has almost four times the administrative overhead loading before the money can be put to member use?

Which union has had former leaders do jail time?

Which union's executives individually earn almost three times the other's?

>>will not fly struck work<<

Yeah, ask the Comair guys about that.

OK ALPO guy i want to hear your response ....

 

[PCL_128]

OK ALPO guy i want to hear your response ....

The answer to every one of this questions is "not ALPA."

 

[ivauir]

Refer to the Usair/America West. Relative seniority, is the only fair way. That's what the new merger law says, that's what your arbitrator would say.

But what do I know.

Clearly you don't know "merger law" because "relative seniority" isn't mentioned anywhere in either AGM or B/M.

It wouldn't be relative seniority nor would it be a staple. IMHO DOH modified for W2s and career expectations is probably what arbitration would bring, but anyone who claims to KNOW doesn't understand arbitration.

 

[Fubijaakr]

PCL,

Its not DoH and you know it. DoH is not recognized by ALPA merger/frag policy OR A/M. Besides, Kelly has stated they're looking for a bankrupt 737 operator. That would be Sun Country. And those jamokes would probably eagerly take a staple just to get a whiff of SWA behinds.

 

[Cometman]

I wouldn't say their is no comparison. Airtran has been profitable for 8 of the last 9 years and has grown from 40 airplanes to 140 airplanes under the umbrella of the largest legacy airline hub in the world (Delta operates around 1000 flights a day out of ATL). Both Southwest and Airtran have been very successful finding their place in the domestic market.

Airtran had to make some difficult changes to the business plan last year (including slowing the growth) due to the spike in fuel prices. Those decisions put Airtran is a good position to return to profitability quickly as evidenced by 2009 producing record quarterly profits. Southwest was able to put off their changes until this year since Southwest was somewhat insulated from the higher fuel prices last year.

Either way, both airlines are strong and can coexist in the same marketplace as evidenced in BWI, MDW, and MCO and soon to be in BOS, LGA, and MKE. Southwest has an advantage of a really strong balance sheet with little debt while Airtran has some of the lowest unit costs in the industry. Southwest and Airtran will continue to chip away domestic marketshare from the legacies for many years to come either as a merged company or as independent LCCs.

You made a good point.

 

[Lear70]

PCL,

Its not DoH and you know it.

I think he already said that...?

Besides, Kelly has stated they're looking for a bankrupt 737 operator. That would be Sun Country. And those jamokes would probably eagerly take a staple just to get a whiff of SWA behinds.

And, of course, airline CEO's ALWAYS do what they say they're going to do in those vague press releases...

He also said that they would only be interested in airlines that operate the same type of aircraft (737) but then went after F9 with a substantial Airbus presence in their fleet that would have to be phased out.

Again, no one knows what they have in mind, and if anyone truly believes everything Southwest puts out to the press, then I have some ocean-front property here in TN I'd like to sell you...

 

[eaglesview]

The answer to every one of this questions is "not ALPA."

Sorry. The answer to all of these examples is ALPA. Try taking a look at reality.

 

[eaglesview]

PCL,

Its not DoH and you know it. DoH is not recognized by ALPA merger/frag policy OR A/M. .

Sorry, help me out here. SWAPA would care about ALPA's merger policy because..........

 

[Kharma Police]

Yeah and how many Airtran pilots have been hired or applied at Swa.
Just kidding. I hope it never happens.

Funny, I know a couple people turned down by AirTran then hired by SWA.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

No to ALPA

I was an ALPA member for over 7 years. I would personally talk to any SWAPA pilot that thinks ALPA is a better choice for the group and convince them otherwise.
I agree this is a mental masterbation. Will not happen.
Probability that SWAPA pilots would ever vote for ALPA representation? Less than the probability that WN acquires AAI.

 

[Vne]

which union has the national record for being sued by its own affiliates?

Which union has the national record for job actions by its own employees?

Which union has the national record for the most events of an affiliate jumping ship to a competitor?

Which union has signed more concessionary contracts than progressive ones over the last 20 years?

Which union had to sell its headquarters building to fund lawsuit claims?

Which union charges almost twice the amount in dues yet operates on a much lower surplus?

Which union has almost four times the administrative overhead loading before the money can be put to member use?

Which union has had former leaders do jail time?

Which union's executives individually earn almost three times the other's?

>>will not fly struck work<<

yeah, ask the comair guys about that.

That would be.........................................A L P A

 

[Fubijaakr]

Sorry, help me out here. SWAPA would care about ALPA's merger policy because..........

If you read the post a little closer, you would realize I was referring to an ALPA/ALPA merger scenario opined in a previous post. An ALPA/SWAPA merger would be governed by Allegheny/Mohawk as dictated by Bond/McCaskill.

The ALPA merger/frag policy is pretty close to the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs.

 

[luv2fly]

The QOL that you mention is the key. The only way to maintain QOL is to maintain relative seniority.

Not necessarily. Ask the number one guy at Mesa or any other QOL sh!thole airline how their QOL life is.

Just having a better system can make a lower seniority dude have better QOL than a more senior one at a terrible work rules place!

 

[runwayjockey]

Is it just me, or it this thread fvcking stupid?

And it's always the same 10 @ssholes posting on here! I must have half this thread on my ignore list!