AA to buy Delta 777`s

[GogglesPisano]

At one time they did have 747s.

I've got an old timetable with a 747 pic to prove it. And a few assorted vintage newspaper ad clippings. Seems like everyone had to have one when they first came out, including EAL and National and AA.

 

[CSY Mon]

Yup, bunch of airlines had 747s for a while.

How many of ya dudes and dudettes knew that Southwest operated 727s...?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Okay boys, here is one of them,

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/457279/L/

Notice WHERE it was taken... Did Delta ever own gates at LHR or were they just sharing with PAA?

 

[General Lee]

ATR,


Pan Am sold them to United. I wish we had LHR slots and gates, but we do not.
Take care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[FurAA]

Although I could see it happening from a fleet simplification standpoint for Delta, there has been absoloutely NO mention of this rumor at AA.

 

[CSY Mon]

Okay boys, here is one of them,

Yup, -100 series, Pratt engines....An early one.

Wonder where she is now?
Hauling freight for Koletta?

 

[GogglesPisano]

Okay boys, here is one of them,

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/457279/L/

Notice WHERE it was taken... Did Delta ever own gates at LHR or were they just sharing with PAA?

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** that's a sweet picture.

The good ol' days.


Where'd they fly them? ATL-MCO? Just kidding. Probably ATL-LAX. This predates trans-Atlantic service, I believe.

 

[Boeingman]

Yup, bunch of airlines had 747s for a while.

How many of ya dudes and dudettes knew that Southwest operated 727s...?

Weren't they actually wet leased from PSA?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Goggles,

This one N9898 went to Air China as B-1860 then to Pan Am as N725PA.
Here is N9899's history.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/316635/L/

 

[General Lee]

Goggles,


I flew with an ex 747 FE for Delta and he said he did a lot of LA and even some OKC flights from ATL on the 747.....Strange, I know.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BigMotorToter]

Ok everyone, sorry about the title.

It is misleading, and when I realized it the next morning, this new layout wouldn`t let me edit it. The info came from a pilot who was at the APA union meeting in MIA and told me it came from a union rep who was addressing the meeting that talks were going on about the deal. I thought that was worthy of passing on, but I should have worded the title differently.

It does seem like a possible senario, given all the reasons G4G5 and others gave.

My wife is a Delta F/A, so I would like to see them keep the airplanes myself, but I think after the restructering is complete, she will be on the street or, who knows, maybe AA will throw in some TWA 757's in the deal and at least someone in my family will be back on the airplanes that I used to fly for 7 years.

 

[General Lee]

Bigmotortoter,

I really don't know how many FA's will be furloughed, but the main reason is the new PBS system. Since the stews don't have any rules anymore (no 30 in 7, no 8 in 24hrs, etc) they have too many. We, the pilots, still have FARs on our side, and we have lots retiring from the top---thank gawd. But, we do not know what the "plan" involves---and there could be some sort of downsizing, although we still need to make enough revenue to pay off the sizeable debt payments and the passenger numbers are forcast to grow. Also, some current Majors may not be around in a few months---so that could help out unfortunately. It will be interesting to see what happens, and we haven't heard the same rumors about the 777s going to AA. We shall see. Everyday there is something new going on in this business. It really is amazing to watch.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[414Flyer]

Goggles,

This one N9898 went to Air China as B-1860 then to Pan Am as N725PA.
Here is N9899's history.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/316635/L/

Sad to see it in such shape, then broken up.

 

[igneousy2]

From what I recall the 767-400 is also a different fleet type at DAL. I would look for the -400 to become part of the same bid status as the 767-200/300. This would allow Delta to to operate all of their 757'sand 767's from one bid status. Now we are talking efficient.

This scenario is unlikely as their are many reasons working against it.

1. Even if you combined the types you would still have to seperate out the International pilots from the Domestic pilots or you would have to operate all pilots under domestic rules which would kill your efficiency you just tried to gain.

2. Even if there were some efficiency to gain considering number 1, the cost would increase because the 767-400's are on a different pay scale then the others so you would have to (ALPA wouldn't allow it otherwise) increase the pay of all of your reserves. i.e. pay them at the 400 rate, or some compromise rate that is higher than what they are paying their 757/767 drivers now increasing the cost of maintaing your reserves.

3. The 767-400 requires differences training that all current 757/767 drivers would have to be sent through, greatly increasing the cost of combining the fleets.

4. The current 767-400 pilots are probably not going to want it as it would mean a reduction in pay, and the possibility that they would have to fly the 757/767 routes where there is substantially more domestic, "short" hop flying.

5. The current 757/767 drivers, a good portion would not be happy because you will have a lot of senior guys dropped on top of the position seniority list, and it would also mean the possibility of having more international long-haul flying.

So my guess would be that things are going to remain status quo in this regard for a while.

Later

 

[iaflyer]

Yup, -100 series, Pratt engines....An early one.

Wonder where she is now?
Hauling freight for Kalitta?

Yes. Actually, I don't know about that exact one.

One of our 747s I flew this month was an ex-Delta airplane. Here we go: N709CK

iaflyer

 

[SoBeFlyer]

Last time I was in a DL 747 it was ATL-SFO. The upstairs lounge had a couch and swivel club chairs.

General,
CBS for the F/As did not eliminate crew rest requirements. FAR Part 121.467 has always outlined crew rest limitations for F/As. CBS has reduced the number of F/As needed by using them more efficiently. Its still a new system, and I'm sure will be tweaked alot. I think the best way to get rid of undesirable F/As is to require a swim during the annual Jet Recurrent training. If they can't swim 25yds and climb in a raft unassisted, then they can't be there for "PAX Safety" now can they?

BigMotorToter,
What Month/Year was your wife's class? My wife was AUG 97. She's starting to worry a little.

 

[G4G5]

This scenario is unlikely as their are many reasons working against it.

1. Even if you combined the types you would still have to seperate out the International pilots from the Domestic pilots or you would have to operate all pilots under domestic rules which would kill your efficiency you just tried to gain.

2. Even if there were some efficiency to gain considering number 1, the cost would increase because the 767-400's are on a different pay scale then the others so you would have to (ALPA wouldn't allow it otherwise) increase the pay of all of your reserves. i.e. pay them at the 400 rate, or some compromise rate that is higher than what they are paying their 757/767 drivers now increasing the cost of maintaing your reserves.

3. The 767-400 requires differences training that all current 757/767 drivers would have to be sent through, greatly increasing the cost of combining the fleets.

G4G5
The cost of training and the associated training time would be minimal. I know at AA the FAA mandated MD80 differences training when we aquired the TWA MD80's. AA had approx 275 MD80's and we were adding just (approx) 30 MD85's that had dual FMS's and EFIS, hardly seemed worth it. The training was 1 extra class day added to your normal recurrent cycle, with in 9 months everyone was qualified. The differences from a 767-400 to a 763/2 are no worse then going from a steam gague MD80 to an all glass MD85. One day of class time is not that big a deal for a company to swallow if it means getting all the 767's on one bid category and the efficiences associated with it.

At DAL intl vs dom is not that big a deal only ATL would be effected. For example, JFK/NYC has no DOM 757/767 bid status so any reserve pilot based in NY would already be Intl only. The last time I checked SLC 757/767 was Dom only.

It also depends if the intl and dom pay survives the ch11 or voluntary give backs. I know at AA mgt has been trying to get rid of the intl pay on the 737 for some time. At AA their is no intl pay for the MD80 flying to the Carib, Mexico and Canada. What do you think Jetblue does? They don't have an intl divison for their San Juan/carib/Latin routes. If it goes to Ch11, DAL mgt will be sure to bring this to the attention of the arbitrator.

4. The current 767-400 pilots are probably not going to want it as it would mean a reduction in pay, and the possibility that they would have to fly the 757/767 routes where there is substantially more domestic, "short" hop flying.

Their are so few 764 pilots that their opinon would hardly phase the masses. If the current 762/3 pilots stood to gain $$ or an improved Q of L by flying the 764 then the union would consider it wash. This is all moot because IMHO if it goes to CH 11, DAL mgt will fight to eliminate the different pay categories along with intl and night. I would look for something along the lines of what UPS or CAL has to come out of it. DAL mgt will push to have 3 bid/pay categories 76-4-3-2/757, 737 and MD88 (adios to the 777).

5. The current 757/767 drivers, a good portion would not be happy because you will have a lot of senior guys dropped on top of the position seniority list, and it would also mean the possibility of having more international long-haul flying.

This doesn't make sence because along with the influx of sr 767-400 pilots comes the 767-400 aircraft that they are currently flying. If anything the 767-400 pilots may stand to get a better Q of life because they will be able to bid any line vs the limited number of 764 lines.


Later

nice chatting

 

[BigMotorToter]

General,

Yea, when I saw the PBS system was something the F/A's were going to do, I thought "goodbye wife's job". I loved the system we had at TWA, and when implemented while an airline is hiring it doesn't affect people much (just less hired over the long term), but when you have people on the street the PBS system just ensure's a longer furlough or more furlough's.

SoBeFlyer,

My wife was a SEP 97 hire. She took the five year leave option after Sep. 11th. What she didn't know at the time she took the leave is that her 5 year recall rights clock also started, (she and others thought that the 5 year clock only applied to you if you were furloughed) and if they are not hiring when her leave expires she is gone for good, even with junior people on the seniority list.

Is your wife within the bottom 800 now? The reason I ask is the rumor my wife heard is that is how many will get the ax when "The Plan" is announced.

Good luck.

P.S. I sure hope she keeps her job, the Delta pass bennie's are the best!