AA to buy Delta 777`s

[BigMotorToter]

Just talked to a AA pilot who said that at the MIA APA union meeting it was told that Delta may sell 7 777`s to AA as part of Delta`s new re-structuring plan.
I am guessing that Delta doesn`t have economies of scale with the 777 and may be getting more 767`s for their long haul expansion they envision.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

AA is in a position where they can buy 7 777's? Aren't they in the same boat as DAL but deeper in the water?

 

[Neubyfly]

Rolls royce VS P&W

 

[Heavy Set]

Include "may" in the title of this post - NO PROOF

My car mechanic told me that Spirit Airlines might buy all of Delta's 737-200s and 767-400s...

Does Bigmotortoter work for the USA Today? Where do we get these unfounded rumors? Oh wait, this is a rumor board...

 

[On Your Six]

Another Bad Title.... And what about Asian routes????

Just talked to a AA pilot who said that at the MIA APA union meeting it was told that Delta may sell 7 777`s to AA as part of Delta`s new re-structuring plan.
I am guessing that Delta doesn`t have economies of scale with the 777 and may be getting more 767`s for their long haul expansion they envision.

Dude, your title is unequivocal and yet your post says "may sell 7 777s". Perhaps, like Heavy Set suggests, you should fix your title - it is very misleading and entirely speculative.

I thought Delta just deferred a few 777s vs. actually selling them like originally thought? Also, what would Delta use to fly to Asia - not the sand-soaked MD-11s sitting in the desert? Delta would not give up its important Asian routes and 767-300/400s would not likely be used. Now, replacing the 777s with 7E7s might be plausible - but nothing has been said supporting that possibility.

 

[G4G5]

It has some merit.
First off as you can see from the web sites below both use R&R's

http://www.aa.com/content/aboutUs/ourPlanes/boeing777.jhtml

http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/aircraft_types/b-777-200/index.jsp

It's not a matter of having the cash, cash has nothing to do with it. Cash FLOW does. If AA can lease the Delta 777's cheaper then they can lease their own, then it makes perfect sence. I am guessing that DAL does not own the 777's and even if they do, what good does it do if they are sitting in the desert next to the UAL 777's? They need to generate cash flow and AA wants to lower their bills. makes sence to me.

Can anyone think of a reason why AA may need a additional 777's? UAL's have the P&W's.

Delta only has a few 777's don't quote me and mabe someone reading this can provide the exact number. From what I remember they had 7. How cost effective is it to operate a fleet of just 7 aircraft? Delta also has around 500 pilots who are over 55 with 25 years of service. Which means that they can retire anytime they want to. What do you think they will do if they sence an imminent ch 11 filing? Stick around, I think not.

So if you are close to filing ch 11, and you only have 7 -777's and all of you 777's can be grounded over night with a sudden pilot retirement rush. What would you do? Keep them?

 

[G4G5]

Dude, your title is unequivocal and yet your post says "may sell 7 777s". Perhaps, like Heavy Set suggests, you should fix your title - it is very misleading and entirely speculative.

I thought Delta just deferred a few 777s vs. actually selling them like originally thought? Also, what would Delta use to fly to Asia - not the sand-soaked MD-11s sitting in the desert? Delta would not give up its important Asian routes and 767-300/400s would not likely be used. Now, replacing the 777s with 7E7s might be plausible - but nothing has been said supporting that possibility.

Is Delta even flying to Asia? From what I remember they bailed out and now use codeshares? I know that they were leasing their Narita slots to FedEx.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2002/03/18/daily44.html

What are they using the 777's for?

 

[On Your Six]

Is Delta even flying to Asia? From what I remember they bailed out and now use codeshares? I know that they were leasing their Narita slots to FedEx.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2002/03/18/daily44.html

What are they using the 777's for?

Delta operates a daily 777 from ATL to NRT (flt. #55) and it uses them on its highly-lucrative European routes (including Paris and Frankfurt). Europe is one of the few shining stars for Delta and the 777s could form the backbone of any future Asia expansion (if it happens). I doubt Delta would give up such a versatile aircraft and limit their ability to expand in the future after these financial problems are sorted out....

 

[Dangerkitty]

Rolls royce VS P&W

B-777's are powered by GE's.

 

[G4G5]

Delta operates a daily 777 from ATL to NRT (flt. #55) and it uses them on its highly-lucrative European routes (including Paris and Frankfurt). Europe is one of the few shining stars for Delta and the 777s could form the backbone of any future Asia expansion (if it happens). I doubt Delta would give up such a versatile aircraft and limit their ability to expand in the future after these financial problems are sorted out....

From what I recall the 767-400 is also a different fleet type at DAL. I would look for the -400 to become part of the same bid status as the 767-200/300. This would allow Delta to to operate all of their 757'sand 767's from one bid status. Now we are talking efficient.

The 767-400 could eaisly cover any of the lucerative European flights. In fact Delta currently operates the 764 with more seats then the 777
http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/aircraft_types/index.jsp

As for one daily flight ATL to Tokyo, how much sence does that make when you are trying to avoid ch11? Delta has already found it more finaicially prudent to codeshare on all of their other Tokyo flights and then lease the slots for additional revenue. I would look for this flight to disappear. With Air Frances purchase of KLM the SKY Team alliance will no doubt get larger (adding NWA/CAL). DAL already has a revenue arrangement with NWA/CAL.

Future Asia expansion? Highly unlikly, do a google search on what DAL had to go through to lease their slots to Fedex. The DOT and the Japanese authorities got into a big time argument over this. the Jap's were angry over the fact that they had just given the slots to DAL in 1998 and by 2002 they had already given up on Asia. the Japs wanted the slots returned and only the DOT's leverage avoided this.

 

[On Your Six]

G4G5,

While I agree with some of what you say, I think that the Asian routes will prove very profitable in the future and the 777 will be required to take advantage of any good opportunities (e.g., China - depsite its current relationship with China Southern). Delta, regardless of what DAL management will say, is not in absolute dire straits - it won't have a fire sale like USAirways and ATA.

Like any good portfolio manager, you will want to keep your best assets and prune your worst - Asia and Europe (all international for that matter) are strong assets for Delta. Even Grinstein alluded to good-ole Pan Am and its strong international structure (although I thought that was a weird and ominous comparison myself...). Grinstein is focusing more on international premium travel and I doubt the 777 would be given up - that's why 2 777s were deferred vs. sold like originally thought.

This original post is PURE SPECULATION and the title is very misleading - it is all unsubstantiated rumor like so many posts on this board...

 

[MachPi]

From what I recall the 747-400 is also a different fleet type at DAL. I would look for the -400 to become part of the same bid status as the 767-200/300.

I may be sniffing glue, but does Delta have any 747s? Did you mean 767s?

 

[G4G5]

I may be sniffing glue, but does Delta have any 747s? Did you mean 767s?

My mistake I ment the 767-400. thanks

 

[Rotorhead]

B-777's are powered by GE's.

Bing......you are right, some 777's are powered by GE's.

Just none of Delta's or AA's.

 

[AA717driver]

I've got to side with G4G5 on this one. I've always thought Delta was insane to only operate 777's in the single digits. They can easily do their European service with the 767's(even doubling up if the demand is there).

Dumping the 777's would be a financially prudent move. The savings would more than offset the lost revenue to the NRT codeshare. IMO.TC

 

[FoxHunter]

Is Delta even flying to Asia? From what I remember they bailed out and now use codeshares? I know that they were leasing their Narita slots to FedEx.

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/stories/2002/03/18/daily44.html

What are they using the 777's for?

Those slots were actually FedEx slots leased/transfered to Delta in 1998.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Those slots were actually FedEx slots leased/transfered to Delta in 1998.

FedEx got them from Flying Tiger Line.

 

[FoxHunter]

FedEx got them from Flying Tiger Line.

Correct

 

[General Lee]

I haven't heard anything about that, even on our Dalpa board. Sure, there could possibly be talks about that, but I doubt it. But, I have heard rumors that AA was going to give(for $$) us ex-TWA 757s with Pratt engines (the regular AA 757 fleet has Rolls) that are in the desert, and then our domestic 767-300ER fleet was going to start more INTL flights......so it may be possible I guess......? I haven't heard anything about it though--and I am not a negotiator.....



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[414Flyer]

I may be sniffing glue, but does Delta have any 747s? Did you mean 767s?

At one time they did have 747s.