AA & SWA

[Sol Rosenberg]

I don't want to fuel a rumor or anything, however I'm looking for some clarification. Yesterday I was sitting at the airport waiting to catch a ride home and was talking to an AA captain. He said that AA and SouthWest may merge. Southwest would be the domestic and AA will do all the international stuff. Anybody else hear something along these lines? I've done a search and didn't find anything. Sol

 

[airlinepilot]

AAA and SWA

2 chances of this happening.....SLIM AND NONE!!!!!

 

[rudderdog]

I don't want to fuel a rumor or anything, however I'm looking for some clarification. Yesterday I was sitting at the airport waiting to catch a ride home and was talking to an AA captain. He said that AA and SouthWest may merge. Southwest would be the domestic and AA will do all the international stuff. Anybody else hear something along these lines? I've done a search and didn't find anything. Sol

Not a good thing for the AA guys.....You know, with a shrinking airline, high debt, old aircraft, and no real career expectations......Sounds like a staple job would be fair and equitable.

 

[Nightmare67]

Not a good thing for the AA guys.....You know, with a shrinking airline, high debt, old aircraft, and no real career expectations......Sounds like a staple job would be fair and equitable.

What goes around....comes around!

 

[350DRIVER]

He said that AA and SouthWest may merge.

This would be comparable to saying that Mercedes and Kia may merge since they both offer the same quality of a product.


Hell will freeze over before this would ever happen.

3 5 0

 

[enigma]

This would be comparable to saying that Mercedes and Kia may merge since they both offer the same quality of a product.


Hell will freeze over before this would ever happen.

3 5 0

350,

I only observe AA and SWA from the back as a shut-mouth free loader, but I don't see any real difference between the two in the domestic market. Well, SWA does have younger FA's, but other than that, there's no real difference in quality of product.

I love both companies, being a Texas home-boy, but your implication that SWA is a "KIA" and AA is a Daimler-Benz is just plain ridiculous. I'd call them VW and DB, with SWA being VW.

BTW, has anyone seen the press release detailing the new $100K Toureg? What about a Phaeton? The biggest Ford dealer in North Texas, Jerry Reynolds, has an auto advice radio show and he rates the Phaeton as one of the best luxury autos on the market. Reynolds and his Prestige group, also sell Lincoln/Mercury.

enigma

 

[miles otoole]

350,

I only observe AA and SWA from the back as a shut-mouth free loader, but I don't see any real difference between the two in the domestic market. Well, SWA does have younger FA's, but other than that, there's no real difference in quality of product.

I love both companies, being a Texas home-boy, but your implication that SWA is a "KIA" and AA is a Daimler-Benz is just plain ridiculous. I'd call them VW and DB, with SWA being VW.

BTW, has anyone seen the press release detailing the new $100K Toureg? What about a Phaeton? The biggest Ford dealer in North Texas, Jerry Reynolds, has an auto advice radio show and he rates the Phaeton as one of the best luxury autos on the market. Reynolds and his Prestige group, also sell Lincoln/Mercury.

enigma

350 is a tool. He/she better hope WN doesn't buy HP. His/her a$$ will be out on the street looking to give hummers to make ends meet. I frequently fly in paid F on AA (wife's a CT surgeon ) and the product is becoming more and more low rent by the month. With few exceptions, the employees hate their jobs and it shows.

As for the Phaeton enigma, a friend just bought one. It goes head to head with the BMW 745; better product, simply poor brand awareness.

 

[steveg]

Actually, I think he meant that aa was like Kia, and WN was the high class one.

 

[wheelsup]

Ya'll are looking at it from the wrong angle

From most of the posts, it seems that people think AA would never lower their standard down to Southwest's level...

Excuse me? SWA is a successful company that makes money for its shareholders. Why would SW lower itself down to AA's level is the question...

Using airlinepilotpay.com, largest aircraft and most senior (12 yr) captain:

AA 777:
64 hrs @ $193/hr x 12 months = ~$148,000/yr basic income (I have no idea what per diem or any extras are)

SWA 737:
78 hrs @ $182/hr x 12 months = ~$170,000/yr basic income (same stuff applies for above).

SWA pilots are making MORE than AA pilots! And in an airplane flying domestically. Funny stuff..

~wheelsup

 

[juan2go]

350DRIVER is a major Tool. I feel sorry for him/her.

 

[ivauir]

I'd be shocked to see SWA merge with anyone - too many downsides (especially te debt) ... but if we were to interline with some one who did the international flying ........ again a big paradigm shift for us, but seems more realistic. Bottom line "I iono", and no line pilot will know before the street (Wall that is)

 

[Mick Romans 9]

Rudderdog,

Dude, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your post.

 

[RedBelly]

Yeah, I like the sound of this.... recall all of the TWA folks & give them Date of Hire (including F/A's), then staple all the AA folks at the bottom.

 

[PastFastMover]

F
AA 777:
64 hrs @ $193/hr x 12 months = ~$148,000/yr basic income (I have no idea what per diem or any extras are)~wheelsup

You seem fairly informed here Wheelsup. How many AA 777 captains fly 64 hours a month? How many Southwest 737 captains fly 78 hours. I have no idea myself. Is 64 hours a normal month for AA and 78 hours a normal month for Southwest?

 

[Slug]

78 - Now that's funny

Actually, I would estimate the average trips for pay that a CP at SWA flies at somewhere in the 95-105 range. I have flew with very few that flew less, and many that flew more. I just got off a 3-day where the CP averages 125 trips for pay a month. He maximizes deadheads and lives 10 minutes south of BWI. As a commuting FO I average about 105 or so. That is working about 14-15 days a month.


Slug

 

[Pull & Rotate]

It is not American Airlines that will merge with SWA, it's Aloha Airlines. Everyone knows that.

 

[chase]

Not really answering the previous question but here is some info on avg SWA pilot totals.

64.5 hrs per pilot was recently put out by management but didn't include those non-flyers (we have a total of 30 chief pilots spread between 7 bases, 1 per base is parttime but few of these folks fly a hard line but most do fly occasionally during the month, approximately 12 other pilots at the HHQ level who don't fly hard lines either). Most of the folks I know fly at least their average hours (75ish) so the 64.5 hrs seems low to me.

Below are the avg "trips" not hours for the CA & FOs for Nov to include avg number of days off. The hours that are on the original schedule is around 75 but one can pick up to the maximum FAA limits for each month. For those who are think one could fly 1000 hrs in 10 months, the computer starts to figure out around Aug if one's totals are approaching a certain threshold then one is limited to how much "extra" one can fly to insure there are sufficient hours left on your years total to get regular lines the rest of the year without going over the FAA maximums, i.e. 1000 hrs total for the year.

MCO CP/FO
Line Avg 93.28
Days off 17.15

BWI
Line Avg 93.46
Days Off 17.21

OAK
Line Avg 93.50
Days off 17.08

MDW
Line Avg 95.90
Days off 17.08

PHX
Line Avg 95.29
Days off 17.06

HOU
Line Avg 93.67
Days off 17.13

DAL
Line Avg 90.70
Days off 17.07

To increase productivity discussions are occurring to include having management pilots split a hard line between several folks, using medical disqualified folks to doing jobs that currently flying folks are doing & getting pulled for, i.e. background checks for new folks, interviews....maybe even use some retired folks to offset some of the expense. We need to get more productivity from ALL portions of the company, management, line and union folks.

As for taking over other carriers...I wouldn't put too much stock in that discussion but Gary Kelly has also said that if there is a rumor out there, it may have some truth to it also....SWA is looking at anything and everything to improve efficiency and productivity. If it can be proven taking over another carrier would do that, I would say it is a possibility of happening. Whether this falls into that category.....well, hard to see how it could be but one never knows. AA Capts are pretty smart so one never knows Just kidding guys...rumors from any sources are always interesting! cheers,

 

[Fly BI]

maybe

It is not American Airlines that will merge with SWA, it's Aloha Airlines. Everyone knows that.

At least this makes some rational sense

 

[wheelsup]

You seem fairly informed here Wheelsup. How many AA 777 captains fly 64 hours a month? How many Southwest 737 captains fly 78 hours. I have no idea myself. Is 64 hours a normal month for AA and 78 hours a normal month for Southwest?

This is minimum guarenteed pay as specified at airlinepilotpay.com. I was trying to compare the two on level playing fields by just using guarenteed pay.

Point being AA guys make less, especially if you compare simular equipment. Keep in mind those were 777 rates when compared to 737 rates.

I just wanted to turn the knife in the backs of people being nay-sayers about southwest and how their product is comparable to not-so-high-quality autos (which incidently have better warranties than american couterparts !?!).

~wheelsup

 

[Heavy Set]

Highly doubt it. That idea contradicts SWA's philosophy of fleet simplicity. SWA will continue to grow domestically - why should they worry about the international side? There is still a lot of growth to be had domestically (you can still link hundreds of city pairs out there).