AA shrinks while everyone else keeps growing...

[aa73]

March bid lines out... EVERY bid status is down at least 3% of previous month's flying, due to the early outs. Nice to see this company is up to speed on manning... all the while we still have 1400 pilots on the street - and they can't increase recalls because the schoolhouse is maxed out. Solution - let's just keep shrinking and cutting out revenue!

<RANT OFF>
73

 

[magrs]

At $100 a RT ticket, I'm sure they are not missing the revenue terribly! I can't drive to the damn grocery store for under a 100 bucks, but I'll be damned if I can't fly to Hawaii for that much!

I'm one of the 1400 still on the street, so I do have a vested interest in seeing this turn around....quickly!

Perhaps if they cherry-pick some routes from those being bought out/merged, we'll see a quick solution to this slow (5 yr) drip in ASM.

 

[aa73]

Magrs... it is not the cheap $100 domestic tickets that hurts them.... it is the high priced int'l revenue they are losing out on. Course, the argument could be made that the high price of fuel offsets the loss... who knows.

It's just irritating to see us shrinking while DAL, CAL etc can't hire fast enough to sustain growth.

73

 

[ferlo]

Magrs... it is not the cheap $100 domestic tickets that hurts the.... it is the high priced int'l revenue they are losing out on. Course, the argument could be made that the high price of fuel offsets the loss... who knows.

It's just irritating to see us shrinking while DAL, CAL etc can't hire fast enough to sustain growth.

73

They'll furlough just as fast as well. Don't worry about it.

 

[refplusnone]

They'll furlough just as fast as well. Don't worry about it.

Hire 'till ya fire. I've been hearing that for as long as I can remember.

Ref

 

[LearLove]

what is the status of the AA guys porposed "all flying done inhouse" that came out a month or so ago?

 

[AA717driver]

what is the status of the AA guys porposed "all flying done inhouse" that came out a month or so ago?

Held hostage to section 6 negotiations. It won't happen as long as AE is a wholly-owned subsidiary.

I believe the best we can get is the 70+ flying on mainline. TC

 

[Gorilla]

Anyone know the REAL number as to the furloughee return rate? I have heard all sorts of wild rumors that the acceptance rate is anywhere from 20% to 50%, with those electing to defer having decent jobs elsewhere.

And frankly, I'm surprised that more guys didn't bail out when the stock market tanked, after locking in their retirement $$ over the fall and early winter months.

 

[Flyby1206]

Held hostage to section 6 negotiations. It won't happen as long as AE is a wholly-owned subsidiary.

I believe the best we can get is the 70+ flying on mainline. TC

I hope you guys do get all flying on the APA list. How does AE being wholly owned affect the chance of all flying on one list? Does APA want all the flying AE currently does but without the AE pilots?

 

[Neubyfly]

AA73:

Not to be picky but:

There are 1439 yet to be offered recall but the official number still furloughed is 2105.

 

[aa73]

AA73:

Not to be picky but:

There are 1439 yet to be offered recall but the official number still furloughed is 2105.

Thanks Neuby. I never quite understood the "2105 still furloughed"... haven't we gone through 1400 or so recalls? with 2800 total, that would equate to about 1400 still out, right?

 

[AA717driver]

I hope you guys do get all flying on the APA list. How does AE being wholly owned affect the chance of all flying on one list? Does APA want all the flying AE currently does but without the AE pilots?

AMR loves to use AE's "pilot costs" to beat up APA. Having all flying done by APA-represented pilots would ruin their fun.

APA most certainly doesn't want the Eagle flying without the pilots. They just don't want to give them DOH which many Eagle guys demand and the Eagle guys don't want to be stapled which is what many APA members demand. Impasse. TC

 

[Big Slick]

Marketing 101

When I was in college I took some interesting marketing classes. Some of these marketing concepts might explain why the airlines act like they do.

When a company is number one, they have to be very conservative in order to maintain the status quo. When a company is number two, they have to be somewhat innovative and aggressive to compete with number one. Number three is called a “Gorilla” because they are very innovative and aggressive.

When I was in college, Coke had Bill Cosby for a spokesman and Pepsi had Michael Jackson. Coke was number one, so they wanted slow growth, low innovation and conservative marketing. Pepsi was the opposite. At one point, Coke went against its given role and did something innovative and aggressive – they introduced New Coke. Everyone hated it because Coke was out of character. The Gorilla is Sprite. Their commercials feature NBA stars and rap music – the opposite of conservative.

McDonalds is very slow to change. Burger King is constantly coming up with new ideas like the triple bacon angioplasty burger. Jack in the Box (the gorilla) has to sell tacos, mocha shakes and sirloin burgers just to keep up.

In the past, American Airlines was the largest, most powerful and conservative with regard to growth, marketing and advertising. Delta and United were number two. To compete, they came up with innovative and aggressive marketing campaigns like Song and Ted. The Gorilla was Southwest. They grew aggressively, marketed aggressively and came up with lots of innovative ideas like ticketless travel. All of the airlines played their role. It would have been wrong for American to lead the way in innovation – why rock the boat when you are ahead?

Here’s the interesting part. A lot of the roles could be changing in the near future. Now that Southwest is the number one domestic carrier, they are suddenly interested in attracting conservative business travelers. In the past, Southwest flight attendants all wore short skirts. Now, if you wear a short skirt, you are escorted off the flight. If Delta/Northwest and United/Continental happens, you will see a big change in how they market themselves too. They will be very conservative with growth, advertising etc. If American moves to the number three spot, they will have to become more innovative in order to keep up. Has anyone else noticed how American’s advertising has become a lot more like Southwest’s in the last year? All of the sudden, they are becoming innovative.

Personally, I think AA will merge with British Airways or another foreign carrier and will continue its conservative nature. Who knows?

 

[pipe]

When I was in college I took some interesting marketing classes. Some of these marketing concepts might explain why the airlines act like they do.

When a company is number one, they have to be very conservative in order to maintain the status quo. When a company is number two, they have to be somewhat innovative and aggressive to compete with number one. Number three is called a “Gorilla” because they are very innovative and aggressive.

When I was in college, Coke had Bill Cosby for a spokesman and Pepsi had Michael Jackson. Coke was number one, so they wanted slow growth, low innovation and conservative marketing. Pepsi was the opposite. At one point, Coke went against its given role and did something innovative and aggressive – they introduced New Coke. Everyone hated it because Coke was out of character. The Gorilla is Sprite. Their commercials feature NBA stars and rap music – the opposite of conservative.

McDonalds is very slow to change. Burger King is constantly coming up with new ideas like the triple bacon angioplasty burger. Jack in the Box (the gorilla) has to sell tacos, mocha shakes and sirloin burgers just to keep up.

In the past, American Airlines was the largest, most powerful and conservative with regard to growth, marketing and advertising. Delta and United were number two. To compete, they came up with innovative and aggressive marketing campaigns like Song and Ted. The Gorilla was Southwest. They grew aggressively, marketed aggressively and came up with lots of innovative ideas like ticketless travel. All of the airlines played their role. It would have been wrong for American to lead the way in innovation – why rock the boat when you are ahead?

Here’s the interesting part. A lot of the roles could be changing in the near future. Now that Southwest is the number one domestic carrier, they are suddenly interested in attracting conservative business travelers. In the past, Southwest flight attendants all wore short skirts. Now, if you wear a short skirt, you are escorted off the flight. If Delta/Northwest and United/Continental happens, you will see a big change in how they market themselves too. They will be very conservative with growth, advertising etc. If American moves to the number three spot, they will have to become more innovative in order to keep up. Has anyone else noticed how American’s advertising has become a lot more like Southwest’s in the last year? All of the sudden, they are becoming innovative.

My father, PhD marketing/management professor for nearly 40 years would say this: "That's probably some crap another professor threw on paper because he was required to publish. That or there was a good conference in Vegas or Miami that he wanted to present at".

The pressure/requirement for professors to publish rather than focus on teaching has led to thousands of these sort of harebrained theories.

Over the years, he has shown me countless examples of lame theories by "experts". This one fills the bill.

Calling Song and Ted innovative is the most ridiculous thing I think I've read on FI. Song was a copy of JetBlue and Ted was a copy of Frontier. If that's innovation, well........

BTW, why would you want sow growth in an industry when you have the greatest market share? Your chunk of the growth in that scenario is greater than everyone else's. In this scenario, your revenues would pull even farther ahead of your competitors.

PIPE

 

[Flyby1206]

Here’s the interesting part. A lot of the roles could be changing in the near future. Now that Southwest is the number one domestic carrier, they are suddenly interested in attracting conservative business travelers. In the past, Southwest flight attendants all wore short skirts. Now, if you wear a short skirt, you are escorted off the flight. If Delta/Northwest and United/Continental happens, you will see a big change in how they market themselves too. They will be very conservative with growth, advertising etc. If American moves to the number three spot, they will have to become more innovative in order to keep up. Has anyone else noticed how American’s advertising has become a lot more like Southwest’s in the last year? All of the sudden, they are becoming innovative.

Personally, I think AA will merge with British Airways or another foreign carrier and will continue its conservative nature. Who knows?

Very true observations. The change is just around the corner and I wouldnt be surprised to see AA in a #3 spot soon. Maybe then they will start acting like a real gorilla! I think a BA/AA merger is imminent as well, just a matter of time until the regulations are relaxed.

 

[MCDU]

If AMR would merge, do you think they would allow all their pilots on furlough to be stapled?

 

[Big Slick]

Calling Song and Ted innovative is the most ridiculous thing I think I've read on FI. Song was a copy of JetBlue and Ted was a copy of Frontier. If that's innovation, well........

A "good idea" and an "innovative" idea are not necessarily the same thing. Like "New Coke." It took a lot of innovative/creative thinking to come up with New Coke. An idea can be innovative and still suck royally.

BTW, did you know Coke used to be made with expensive sugar rather than cheap corn syrup. New Coke used corn syrup. When "Coke Classic" was announced, it used corn syrup too but people had already forgotten what old coke tasted like. So, Coke got what it wanted in the end. They weren't as stupid as they looked.

Maybe the folks running the airlines aren't as stupid as they look either. They just don't give a F*#k about the individual employees. Look at how much money the top management of AA has made in the last 5 years. Not only that, the company is now much more efficient and competitive. They can now make Coke with corn syrup instead of sugar.

In a sick way, they also got rid of one of their competitors - TWA.

They are stupid like a fox. To succeed in todays business world, you have to have an A in marketing, accounting and finance and a D in ethics.

 

[Snapperhead]

Anyone know the REAL number as to the furloughee return rate? I have heard all sorts of wild rumors that the acceptance rate is anywhere from 20% to 50%, with those electing to defer having decent jobs elsewhere.

It's at 35%.

 

[PHXFLYR]

If AMR would merge, do you think they would allow all their pilots on furlough to be stapled?

Only if they were foolish enough to fixate on nothing else but trying to obtain a DOH intergration and forgetting about every thing else in the process. And by the way, you weren't stapled. Your in the same percentile +/- a few on the new list as you were on your old list.
PHXFLYR

 

[Neubyfly]

Thanks Neuby. I never quite understood the "2105 still furloughed"... haven't we gone through 1400 or so recalls? with 2800 total, that would equate to about 1400 still out, right?

They have called 1400 of the 2800 and offered recall. As you know, 35% of those called accepted. So, 2105 are still on furlough, 1400 or so of those have yet to be offered recall the rest are on furlough but defered.

Total still on furlough, 2105.

 

[jmreii]

Calling Song and Ted innovative is the most ridiculous thing I think I've read on FI. Song was a copy of JetBlue and Ted was a copy of Frontier. If that's innovation, well........

A "good idea" and an "innovative" idea are not necessarily the same thing. Like "New Coke." It took a lot of innovative/creative thinking to come up with New Coke. An idea can be innovative and still suck royally.

BTW, did you know Coke used to be made with expensive sugar rather than cheap corn syrup. New Coke used corn syrup. When "Coke Classic" was announced, it used corn syrup too but people had already forgotten what old coke tasted like. So, Coke got what it wanted in the end. They weren't as stupid as they looked.

Maybe the folks running the airlines aren't as stupid as they look either. They just don't give a F*#k about the individual employees. Look at how much money the top management of AA has made in the last 5 years. Not only that, the company is now much more efficient and competitive. They can now make Coke with corn syrup instead of sugar.

In a sick way, they also got rid of one of their competitors - TWA.

They are stupid like a fox. To succeed in todays business world, you have to have an A in marketing, accounting and finance and a D in ethics.

you are right, they are stupid like a fox. just look at the management group that sold Pacific Southwest Airlines to US Air. they laugh every day they go past a bank. guess there is some truth to a sucker/sapp being born every minute.