AA Retirements triggered by Dow at 12,000?

[HockleyPilot]

I was told there will be retirements at AA when the DOW was above 12,000. Since it closed yesterday above 12 (now below today), I figured I would ask. This was told to me by an AA jumpseater.

Truth or wishful thinking on his part?

 

[S3sundowner]

Wishful. Retirements will commence when greed is no longer a human emotion.

 

[jonjuan]

Wishful. Retirements will commence when greed is no longer a human emotion.

Exactly. Look for the gummers at southwest to push for age 70 now that Dow's +12K.

 

[S3sundowner]

Exactly. Look for the gummers at southwest to push for age 70 now that Dow's +12K.

+1. Can we now begin the thread creep to make this a swa/aai post?

 

[AA717driver]

They're waiting for 12,100. That's the target.



TC

 

[Full of LUV]

Exactly. Look for the gummers at southwest to push for age 70 now that Dow's +12K.

Actually, SWAPA always pushed for 65 because they had no retiree medical gap insurance in their contract like most airlines. So when you retired at somewhere else, you med was covered or at least subsidized until you turned 65 to get medicare. It is expensive.
A decade ago, at DAL you didn't even have to go on to medicare, but alas that has all gone.
If medicare entry age ever adjusts up to say 70, then you will see a push from older pilots to readjust the retiree age to match the medicare start.

 

[Flyby1206]

If medicare entry age ever adjusts up to say 70, then you will see a push from older pilots to readjust the retiree age to match the medicare start.

And then the mass suicide of those under-40 pilots will finally create a pilot shortage!

 

[GuppyWN]

Actually, SWAPA always pushed for 65 because they had no retiree medical gap insurance in their contract like most airlines. So when you retired at somewhere else, you med was covered or at least subsidized until you turned 65 to get medicare. It is expensive.

Actually, you don't know what you're talking about.

SWA pilots "paid" for their own GAP coverage out of their sick bank so it didn't cost us any out of pocket cashola.

Gup

 

[thruthemurk]

How much sick time was required to cover the whole gap?

 

[Full of LUV]

Actually, you don't know what you're talking about.

SWA pilots "paid" for their own GAP coverage out of their sick bank so it didn't cost us any out of pocket cashola.

Gup

Gup,
That's a more recent invention. Why did SWAPA always hold the age 65 flame then, what was their primary reason?

 

[GuppyWN]

Gup,
That's a more recent invention. Why did SWAPA always hold the age 65 flame then, what was their primary reason?

The GAP had been here since the 2002 contract extension. You could take 600 TFP (about 1/3 of your max balance) from your sick balance and buy your own medical until Uncle Sam took over.

SWAPA pushed for Age 65 because the membership voted to support the change and to spend dues money for the push. It was touted as "the right thing to do."

Gup, OTOH, voted NO to spending my dues money to screw me. I think it was not "the right thing to do" because it gave those that got the most 5 more years of the most while letting everyone else pay for it.

But I digress,
Gup

 

[Flopgut]

Gup: What did they do with the money? I mean, whatever SWAPA did was a total waste. Nothing got done, or was ever going to get done, until ALPA got on the issue. I've raised a real stink over what ALPA did and the answer usually is that results were produced. Your union produced zero results. You ought to float a resolution that SWAPA pay the money back with a percentage of pay taken past age 60. BTW: Are there any members over there that have any idea what "the right thing to do" for those who got knee-capped by this rule? The other cheek has been turned over this. But anytime this issue is discussed it usually takes the shape of a a debate that would occur if it had not yet changed. What are your old guys saying?

 

[GuppyWN]

Gup: What did they do with the money? I mean, whatever SWAPA did was a total waste. Nothing got done, or was ever going to get done, until ALPA got on the issue. I've raised a real stink over what ALPA did and the answer usually is that results were produced. Your union produced zero results. You ought to float a resolution that SWAPA pay the money back with a percentage of pay taken past age 60. BTW: Are there any members over there that have any idea what "the right thing to do" for those who got knee-capped by this rule? The other cheek has been turned over this. But anytime this issue is discussed it usually takes the shape of a a debate that would occur if it had not yet changed. What are your old guys saying?

THREAD CREEP ALERT!

EXACTLY! Our union president at the time (2002) said he wanted $80k/yr to spend in DC to "research" the change because there was some noise being made. The vote, not the first floated but the first passed, passed by 65/35 margin. The president immediately started spending (easily verified cause I did) over $400,000/yr in DC pushing the change. The money was lobbyists, committees, etc. This money did NOT include voluntary PAC contributions that were also being solicited.

Long story short there was a HUGE push by our guys when ALPA got involved. Interestingly enough ALPA voted and your members chose NOT to support spending money but yet ALPA continued to have big involvement. Go figure.

As time has past it has become clear that our FO's will spend 5 additional years in the right seat attempting to recoup the financial loss of no growth, no retirements and a sour economy. The economy is turning, the growth is marginal and we have 679 more days until the first forced retirement.

Our old guys are blaming their not leaving on the DOW, which BTW, is ABOVE where it was 2 years ago so I'm not buying that excuse. Bottom line? Greed, divorce and an earned right to occupy the seat until they damn well want to is being enforced. I don't blame them I'd want to go out on my terms too.

I made the cut. In the end I get 5 more years in the LEFT seat if I want. I just feel like our younger generation got duped and have so since 2002. As time passes more of them are seeing it as well and are questioning if it was in fact "the right thing to do."

Gup

 

[Dart]

Thought this was an AA thread!

 

[Quimby]

Thought this was an AA thread!

It is. AA(RP)

 

[Dart]

It is. AA(RP)

LOL! Thats funny ********************!

 

[Flopgut]

Gup: I'm not in the left seat anymore. (but I make more on the widebody as a FO and have more time off than if I were a reserve captain) I mostly fly with guys over 60. If you just threw out the multiply divorced pilots we would be hiring. Most of the earnings past 60 around here [CAL] goes to recovery after the 2nd and third divorce. The one thing we are doing right at CAL is fighting for scope. Even most of the old guys.

I think ALPA will try to change the age again and I think that will be their downfall. It's turned into the union of the aged and the regional pilot. We'll stick with ALPA through our merger, I think. If ALPA came out tomorrow supporting a further age increase they'd get dropped instantly.

*I guess what I'm saying Gup is, I don't think anybody lost more with the age change than a junior SWA pilot. Is there no consideration on SWAPA's part? You've got a merger on your hands now [or at least some type of transaction]. It's not the Airtran pilots fault so stapling/screwing them isn't going to work. (You can't do that; you will all lose in the end) I really expected (or still expect) SWA pilot emplyees to take some action within their own ranks to bring the junior pilots up to par with the rest of the group. Sponsor some early retirements maybe? Or something? Idk..... It's BS the way this has happened for your seniority list's lower half. Being senior at SWA is all you've got. There's no other equipment or fleet or anything.

 

[jonjuan]

I'm not in the left seat anymore. (but I make more on the widebody as a FO and have more time off than if I were a reserve captain) I mostly fly with guys over 60. If you just threw out the multiply divorced pilots we would be hiring. Most of the earnings past 60 around here [CAL] goes to recovery after the 2nd and third divorce.

What makes you so immune to a 2nd or even 3rd divorce? Is it because you're "different?" :laugh:

 

[Flopgut]

What makes you so immune to a 2nd or even 3rd divorce? Is it because you're "different?" :laugh:

Yes, I'm different. However, I'm not "different"....

 

[rjacobs]

You aint going to see a huge exodus from AA until the market dips again, then they will all punch or risk losing a couple hundred thousand from their pension.

 

[magrs]

A pension, what a glorius thought!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all the bad mouthing of AA, at least they didn't sell out the pension crowd. 9+ years on furlough and I can say that eith a straight face!

 

[Tomct]

A pension, what a glorius thought!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all the bad mouthing of AA, at least they didn't sell out the pension crowd. 9+ years on furlough and I can say that eith a straight face!

Nope, they didn't, but YOU are paying for it by being on the street. That sucks!!

 

[glasspilot1]

You aint going to see a huge exodus from AA until the market dips again, then they will all punch or risk losing a couple hundred thousand from their pension.

Sorry, I don't buy it. When the market took a dump in 07/08 everybody thought senior Captains would start bailing. They didn't because they, well they weren't at the peak anymore! So then they stay put until the market recovers. And now they're over 60!

 

[rjacobs]

Sorry, I don't buy it. When the market took a dump in 07/08 everybody thought senior Captains would start bailing. They didn't because they, well they weren't at the peak anymore! So then they stay put until the market recovers. And now they're over 60!

Feb 1st(or maybe it was technically Jan 31st) 2008 there were roughly 300 guys leave. I would say thats a fairly high number. How many guys at that time were eligible(i.e. wouldnt take a penalty to go) to leave that didnt?

 

[satpak77]

We all know about taking stock tips from strangers on flightinfo, but with that said.....

As a pretty serious at-home trader and investor, many believe the new "bull" market got started in Sept/2010. History shows that the strong bull uptrend usually lasts two years, then a flat year, then a new downtrend year into a new bear trend.

So if history serves us, we are looking at a 3-year time frame from approx Sept/2010 before the market tops out again and goes down.

 

[Singlecoil]

You aint going to see a huge exodus from AA until the market dips again, then they will all punch or risk losing a couple hundred thousand from their pension.

Defined benefit plans (pensions) don't change in value with market fluctuations. That's the whole point in having one. Maybe you are thinking of their 401k's.

 

[rjacobs]

Defined benefit plans (pensions) don't change in value with market fluctuations. That's the whole point in having one. Maybe you are thinking of their 401k's.

The AA plan does, or at least a very large part of it. The unit value almost directly correlates to market price. 10% drop in the market=10% drop in the pension price. Thats why they(AA) always have a 90 day lookback at the unit value to decide if they want to retire or not.

 

[Flopgut]

*I guess what I'm saying Gup is, I don't think anybody lost more with the age change than a junior SWA pilot. Is there no consideration on SWAPA's part? You've got a merger on your hands now [or at least some type of transaction]. It's not the Airtran pilots fault so stapling/screwing them isn't going to work. (You can't do that; you will all lose in the end) I really expected (or still expect) SWA pilot emplyees to take some action within their own ranks to bring the junior pilots up to par with the rest of the group. Sponsor some early retirements maybe? Or something? Idk..... It's BS the way this has happened for your seniority list's lower half. Being senior at SWA is all you've got. There's no other equipment or fleet or anything.

Hey Gup: Didn't get the edit? Or prefer not to respond?