AA Recalls

[80drvr]

New rumor getting leaked from inside AMR and APA. Reportedly, recall letters to go out in Oct for classes starting in Jan. Numbers to start at 30/month with training capacity at 60/month. Instructors to be hired in September.

I'm not reporting this from the source (hearsay), so take it FWIW.

 

[75M]

Sweet! Approximately 3000 pilots on furlough.

30/month ~100 months ~ 8 years
60/month ~ 50 months ~ 4 years

Hopefully most of the furloughed pilots found a better deal and won't need to go back.

If they have to call three pilots to get one back and they can train 60 per month:

60/month ~ 17 months ~ 1.5 years.

Good luck to all...

 

[XTW]

F' em!

X

 

[Flyby1206]

Recalls are inevitable, its just a matter of time. So eventually someone will post a rumor thats true! Hope this is it!

 

[pkober]

Well said! At least it's there in a pinch, unfortunately alot of our TWA'ers still haven't found a better job.

Good luck to all.

CLAMBAKE

 

[AA717driver]

F' em!

X

My, my. A little surly are we? I guess this is day 10 of a 7 day trip... TC

 

[AA717driver]

Sweet!....Good luck to all...

Yeah, give up left seat in a 737 or 717 to go back. I'D kick your a$$ if you do that! TC

P.S.--Football season is coming. Gotta find an acceptable bar with a big screen.

 

[XTW]

My, my. A little surly are we? I guess this is day 10 of a 7 day trip... TC

Everybody I fly with thinks I'm on day 8 when we only have 7 day trips!!!
And that's on day 1.

 

[ils2minimums]

I just returned from my R9 (last night). During the Human Factors class on Sunday we were supposed to hear from Hetterman. But being that it was a weekend, he had better things to do... Instead, we got a chance to have a Q&A session with an APA higher-up who happened to be doing his recurrent training. He stayed until there were no more questions (so did I).

I specifically asked about growth, recalls, PBS, and any rumors of new aircraft. He said the APA has been informed of NO plans for growth, and NO talk of recalls OR new planes. He also said there is no interest at APA in allowing PBS. He said the sentiments of Hunter in his last two communiques were the plan going forward. Specifically the comment "if AMR wants the contract of a bankrupt carrier, they'll have to go bankrupt to get it". Also, despite the rumors to the contrary, Hunter is a line-qualified and line-current Captain who holds a current first class medical. (Many, including myself, thought otherwise due to the rumors. But we were given valid info during the Q&A). Also, on Saturday our FMB instructor was asking about whether or not the guard unit of one our classmates needed a chief. He was asking this because he was being furloughed from the flight academy in a month. (It seems the rumor about the hiring of instructors is false)

There were many questions and some pointed answers. If you want my best recollection, PM me and I'll let you know what was said, and who the APA guy was.

An interesting note regarding our aging MD-80 fleet. If we were to begin replacing them tomorrow at a rate of 3 planes per month, it would take 14 years... So think about that. We could take delivery of 3 planes a month until September of 2020 and not grow by a singe seat...

 

[Flyby1206]

An interesting note regarding our aging MD-80 fleet. If we were to begin replacing them tomorrow at a rate of 3 planes per month, it would take 14 years... So think about that. We could take delivery of 3 planes a month until September of 2020 and not grow by a singe seat...

Thats a sobering thought

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Have you guys ever heard of a confidentiality agreement? There is no telling how much (or how little) this APA guy knows about things such as recalls and aircraft orders at AA. All I can say is that if he is privy to such things, there is no doubt that he is bound by a confidentiality agreement and cannot realease such information - even to the union membership. Plans such as aircraft orders and potential growth are kept very quiet as the unintended release of this information to the general public and the competition can have a huge negative impact on the corporation - not to mention the stock price. I don't want to say he was lying, but if he knows something about a large upcoming aircraft order or specific growth plans, I seriously doubt that he would be allowed to divulge such information.
I still believe that there is some truth to this rumor. The numbers don't lie; since the last furlough (nearly 17 months ago) AA has probably lost 600 pilots and the attrition is only increasing. Yes, AA has parked a number of aircraft, but there is no way that they continue to sustain these losses without having to recall fairly soon.

 

[ils2minimums]

Yes, AA has parked a number of aircraft, but there is no way that they continue to sustain these losses without having to recall fairly soon.

I hope you are correct. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just passing along firsthand information from a credible source. I have no incentive to exaggerate or leave anything out. What was said during the Q&A was informative and sobering. Regarding recalls, AA can continue to park aircraft for as long as they see fit, confidentiality agreements aside. The entire 727 and F100 fleets are gone, the MD-80's are getting old, so are the A300's, and we just got rid of TWA's 757's. AMR management has done plenty of things in the past that would be considered dumber than continuing to shrink...

On a different, equally negative note: On the ride to the training hotel Monday, I sat with 10 Eagle new-hires. They were told that the current pace of 22 new-hires per month is going to be ramped-up to 44 per month this Autumn (I don't know if this is for attrition or growth). They are also conducting new-hire flight attendant classes.

 

[Cleared Direct]

IOn a different, equally negative note: On the ride to the training hotel Monday, I sat with 10 Eagle new-hires. They were told that the current pace of 22 new-hires per month is going to be ramped-up to 44 per month this Autumn (I don't know if this is for attrition or growth). They are also conducting new-hire flight attendant classes.

All attrition. No new planes since July last year, and no plans to exercise the option on the last 25 CRJ-700s. We are getting back some older Saabs that we parked, but we are turning in the more expensive leased Saab 340Bs at about the same rate.

Eagle is having a huge attrition problem right now. This is mainly pilots making lateral moves to places like Skywest, because of such a long time to upgrade. We are losing some captains to SWA also. New hires don't want to come to Eagle for the same reason, so we are getting the less qualified pilots or the ones that want to live where the bases are.

If AA recalls it would eventually help with the long upgrade time at Eagle with all the flowbacks going back.

 

[ils2minimums]

All attrition. No new planes since July last year, and no plans to exercise the option on the last 25 CRJ-700s. We are getting back some older Saabs that we parked, but we are turning in the more expensive leased Saab 340Bs at about the same rate.

Eagle is having a huge attrition problem right now. This is mainly pilots making lateral moves to places like Skywest, because of such a long time to upgrade. We are losing some captains to SWA also. New hires don't want to come to Eagle for the same reason, so we are getting the less qualified pilots or the ones that want to live where the bases are.

If AA recalls it would eventually help with the long upgrade time at Eagle with all the flowbacks going back.

Thanks for the informative post. As a matter of fact, a few of the guys on the bus were going to Saabs, and the guy with whom I was speaking was going to the ATR. And he had VERY low time. I won't say how low, but he was from some sort of bridge program at SIU that allowed him to come to Eagle with WAY less than the minimum time required.

He said there were two guys over 50 in his class...

 

[General Lee]

Not to slam anyone, but what about those 19 ex TWA 757s that are leaving AA starting next year? That probably won't help. Maybe you will be getting more 777s and bringing more MD80s out of the desert though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

It was bad enough that AA chose not to renew the leases on the 757s, but what made it worse was that the lessor turned around and decided to lease them to the competition. I really don't know what AA was thinking when they made that decision. Although the loss of the 757s is not good news for those that are furloughed, it may not be quite that bad since the planes won't all be leaving at once. In fact, the 19 planes will be removed starting in January of 2007 and ending in March of 2008. I guess 19 planes removed over a 14 month period won't be as painful as if they were all removed at the same time. Given the current staffing of around 13 pilots per 757, the loss of the 19 planes equates to the loss of around 250 jobs. On the other hand, the attrition for the same period may very well turn out to be twice that number.

 

[satpak77]

Recalls? What staffing need exists when they park the A-300 fleet?

What growth outside of Eagle is happening?

 

[AA717driver]

From a pilot perspective, there's no way AA can't start recalling this year. From a management perspective, if they're making money and covering the schedule (ie: no meltdowns on nice sunny days) why should they recall?

I wouldn't worry about PBS. If done properly, it can be a great QOL enhancer (especially for AA which has some of the worst commuter pairings in the world!).

Would adopting PB delay recalls? I don't know. My friend in the union says no--besides, any cost in manpower is a non-starter. It will be interesting to see what the company's opener is come next month.

XTW, 75M and I don't HAVE to take a recall but we would certainly like to see it happen for those who haven't been as luck...er, I mean as talented, savvy and vital to aviation as us. TC

 

[Lowpayisgreat]

AA Recall

Guys

I was down in Rosewell NM last month picking up a plane for the military. The super 80's are being sent their. I started a convesation with one of the guys that works for the company that stores all those aircraft. He told me every AA super 80 they recieved was being stripped and sold. No APA or AA memo ever stated that. I took a ride with him to see and sure enough the engines were being removed and the inside stripped.

 

[75M]

XTW, 75M and I don't HAVE to take a recall but we would certainly like to see it happen for those who haven't been as luck...er, I mean as talented, savvy and vital to aviation as us. TC

Stop, you're killin' me!

 

[Andy]

I wouldn't worry about PBS. If done properly, it can be a great QOL enhancer (especially for AA which has some of the worst commuter pairings in the world!).

Hmmmph. In the hands of unscrupulous management, PBS can turn pilots' lives into he11. Just ask any United pilot what they think of PBS. And now Northwest; I understand that management there has learned from watching United in how to extract an additional pound of flesh from every pilot.

 

[80drvr]

Guys

I was down in Rosewell NM last month picking up a plane for the military. The super 80's are being sent their. I started a convesation with one of the guys that works for the company that stores all those aircraft. He told me every AA super 80 they recieved was being stripped and sold. No APA or AA memo ever stated that. I took a ride with him to see and sure enough the engines were being removed and the inside stripped.

About half the MD-80s sent to the desert are being permanently retired and the other half are supposed to be in temporary storage. This is according to the company.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Recalls? What staffing need exists when they park the A-300 fleet?

What growth outside of Eagle is happening?

Park the A300? Of the fleet of 34, AA owns 10 and leases the other 24. The leases don't expire for quite some time and there is no way AA is going to park them before the leases expire. Here is a breakdown for when the leases expire:
2008 - 3
2009 - 3
2010 - 9
2011 and later - 9
As for growth at Eagle - how much can Eagle possibly grow given the fact that they have not received a new jet since July of 2005? AA has apparently realized the 50 seat regional jets are not all that great after all.

 

[aa73]

Wyoherkdrvr, check your pms.

Gents, I just got off the phone with the NY vice chairman. Told him about the new rumor, his opinion is that it has validity to it - but he doesn't rule out that it's JUST a rumor. Basically, the company and manning are down to their cushion where they may need to start the "premium flying" option - and that's not a good option because, believe it or not, we actually have some unity within the pilot group to turn it down. Last summer the premium flying was a total flop - good job guys! So they are down to the point where they either need to recall or announce another massive airplane parking garage. My guess is that we're pretty close to recalling - I don't believe AA can continue shrinking indefinitely. Stay tuned, I'll provide info whenever I hear it.

73

 

[Draginass]

The word I hear is that the company is parking at least 10 A300s. Recalls? Don't quit your day job.

 

[AA717driver]

Hmmmph. In the hands of unscrupulous management, PBS can turn pilots' lives into he11. Just ask any United pilot what they think of PBS. And now Northwest; I understand that management there has learned from watching United in how to extract an additional pound of flesh from every pilot.

Absolutely! I wouldn't trust ANY management to run PBS. That is also a non-starter for adopting it at AA.TC

 

[Andy]

Absolutely! I wouldn't trust ANY management to run PBS. That is also a non-starter for adopting it at AA.TC

There's the rub. Management will insist on continuing to run crew scheduling. They are not going to allow the pilots to have the flexibility that they desire under PBS.
Personally, I'd want to bid a min time schedule. That's only possible for the top quarter or so of any fleet & seat at United. The rest end up getting max time lines. Quite an incentive for me to stay on the smallest equipment when I return to United.