AA Recalls and Age 65

[Big Slick]

Do the AA recalls already take the age 65 change into account, or will the recalls come to a grinding halt? Anyone have the inside scoop?

 

[Flyby1206]

I would bet it comes to a grinding halt. 5 more years of winter!

 

[aussiefly]

And you can thank all the old SWA geezers for that...oh and Prater as well.....

Lets Burn ALPA Down

 

[Neubyfly]

grinding halt

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

This thing will NOT happen overnight. This is going to be a bureaucratic nightmare and my guess is that it will probably take a couple of years before it is fully impemented. Hopefully, most of the furloughees at AA will be recalled before this ill-conceived ruling takes effect. In the meantime, we can take comfort knowing that many of those pushing for the change (guys in their late 50s) will retire and they sure as heck won't be coming back!

 

[Draginass]

The FAA rule is not the only issue. There are contractural issues with the union contract and retirement system as well.

 

[AAPilot]

I believe AA was aware that this could and would be changing. They have ramped up the trainging dept. etc for recalls and I believe that the recalls will continue no matter what. I do however wonder if they would provide some sort of "DAL" early outs seeing they would rather get rid of the heavy higher paid captains and bring in the younger blood.

What do you think AAflyer and AA73??

 

[RedTailSwinger]

How long do most of the legacies allow a furloughee to be elible for recall. I always thought it was typically around 7 years.

If the age 65 thing happens, I would imagine a lot of furloghees will never get recalled at any company with a large furlough list.

 

[aa73]

I agree, it'snot really gonna affect recalls. We are way short on pilots whether they retire or not... and AA is pretty much done shrinking. Also, there will still be a whole bunch of pilots who decide to punch out early once this is official... and it's not gonna be official for at least another year to 18 months.

 

[Big Slick]

We will all get recalled just in time for the next round of furloughs!

Let's look on the bright side, at least we will reset our furlough recall clock!

I'm just being cynical - I'm just glad there are recalls.

 

[Andy]

Do the AA recalls already take the age 65 change into account, or will the recalls come to a grinding halt? Anyone have the inside scoop?

From talking to the lobbyists, lookback is a dead issue. There will be a finite date set - if you turn 60 the day before, too bad, so sad; sue if you like, but you'll lose.
It will also take at least 18 months to get this thing through the NPRM process. And we're assuming that the new FAA administrator doesn't slow down the process further or stop it completely.
I'd say that you're looking at recalls continuing for at least the next 12 months.
As far as your statement about being recalled only to get furloughed, that's what I'm looking at. Just recalled by United to a 22 Jan class. This will now leave me at the bottom of the seniority list for a LONG time. Almost guaranteed that there will be furloughs again before the age 65 thing fully unwinds.

Keep an eye on what the airlines do as far as recalls. They have a lot of information from inside the FAA and will telegraph when implementation gets close ... recalls and hiring will magically slow down/stop before this goes into effect.

 

[AA717driver]

AA's a different case. With their DB retirement intact, there will have to be much wrangling done to implement the 65 rule.

I say freeze the pension when the person reaches 60. That way, there's no penalty for retiring at 60, the company has already "planned" for pilots to do so and it will reduce the impact on recalling and hiring (lower paid people).

If you want/need to continue working to 65, fine. Those who need to would be able to max out their 401k contributions to make up for lost pensions, layoffs, late career chang, etc. JMO. TC

 

[GIII Instructor]

I believe AA was aware that this could and would be changing. They have ramped up the trainging dept. etc for recalls and I believe that the recalls will continue no matter what. I do however wonder if they would provide some sort of "DAL" early outs seeing they would rather get rid of the heavy higher paid captains and bring in the younger blood.

What do you think AAflyer and AA73??

since when has management ever tried to attempt an early out program with efforts to get rid of the higher paid guys? if anything a mass exodus would cause a financial drain on a company. just look at how much delta had to pay out in early retirement money. i'm sure recalls will continue... if AA does not grow only the top 25% of the recall seniority will most likely have a job to go back to. and even then, the quality of life wouldn't be the greatest.

just my opinion

 

[Flyby1206]

In the articles I have read it seems that APA doesnt want the age to be raised to 65. Can they negotiate something in the new contract to keep the age of retirement at 60 regardless of what the FAA wants it to be?

 

[AAPilot]

In the articles I have read it seems that APA doesnt want the age to be raised to 65. Can they negotiate something in the new contract to keep the age of retirement at 60 regardless of what the FAA wants it to be?

Lets hope so for furlougees

 

[XTW]

since when has management ever tried to attempt an early out program with efforts to get rid of the higher paid guys? if anything a mass exodus would cause a financial drain on a company.

AA had to offer early outs prior to implementing the furlough. I don't believe they got all that were available. They offered 12 months of pay at 75 hours guarantee, and then your retirement becomes effective. A no-brainer for anyone with less than 12 months to age 60. I personally spoke to a few that couldn't bear to do it. Sad.


X

 

[El Pobre]

If I were at AA and looking at age 60, I might very well consider retiring at 60 and taking my lump sum from the A-fund...With age 65 being the mandatory retirement age, what's to keep the company from opting to terminate the A-fund like USAIR, Delta, UAL etc......I would take the $$ and run (like the smart Delta guys did)

There will be more and more pressure on AA to get rid of the DB plan in order to remain competetive with the other legacies as well as to put that money towards management bonuses.

 

[CitationLover]

If I were at AA and looking at age 60, I might very well consider retiring at 60 and taking my lump sum from the A-fund...With age 65 being the mandatory retirement age, what's to keep the company from opting to terminate the A-fund like USAIR, Delta, UAL etc......I would take the $$ and run (like the smart Delta guys did)

because the A fund is now cheaper with a retirement at age 65 versus 60. if they're not terminating for 60, they likely won't for age 65.

what is the service cap for the AA pension plan?

 

[AAflyer]

If I were at AA and looking at age 60, I might very well consider retiring at 60 and taking my lump sum from the A-fund...With age 65 being the mandatory retirement age, what's to keep the company from opting to terminate the A-fund like USAIR, Delta, UAL etc......I would take the $$ and run (like the smart Delta guys did)

There will be more and more pressure on AA to get rid of the DB plan in order to remain competetive with the other legacies as well as to put that money towards management bonuses.

Why is that? The other legacies that shed their pensions were DEEPLY underfunded. Ours were never that bad. The fundings now are solid, AMR has made no mention of changing it, no mention of even bringing it up in sect 6. Could they, sure.

Do I trust AMR, hell no... Could they let the DB plans slide and then claim they can not afford it..Certianly! However they actually made additional payments to our DB plan at the end of 2006. If not mistaken it was an additional 100+ million in the the DB plans, the employees, not managements.

Citationlover,

Not sure about the service cap, will check into it.

AAflyer

 

[ootskdog]

How long do most of the legacies allow a furloughee to be elible for recall. I always thought it was typically around 7 years.

If the age 65 thing happens, I would imagine a lot of furloghees will never get recalled at any company with a large furlough list.

The furloughed AA pilots have unlimited recall rights, negotiated into the last contract.

 

[rudderdog]

I'm against age 65. It unbelievable how many want/need the rule to change. For those people and their situations though, I do understand why they support it. If the law changes, I say let them fly past 60 only when all furloghed pilots have had a first recall. That's fair, right?

 

[yaks]

FWIW recall rights for 3 years after the last guy is recalled.