AA Pilot Busted for Impersonating Cop

[Occam's Razor]

Can I still use my creds to take 11 items through the "10 Items Or Less" line a Kroger's?

 

[FN FAL]

You make such blanket statements. Actually the US government can hold a person indefinately depending on the situation. They are doing it right now. They held an american citizen for like 3 years and finally released him for a trial. Every state has different rules and every department has different practices.

I was talking about the local cops ability to hold a person for 72 hours without charging them.

 

[FN FAL]

You seem to be hung up on the "local officer enforcing federal law" theme.

Kansas Criminal Code, section 21-3110 (10) defines law enforcement officer as

(10) "Law enforcement officer" means:
(a) Any person who by virtue of such person's office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to maintain public order or to make arrests for crimes, whether that duty extends to all crimes or is limited to specific crimes;

This person was likely arrest for Impersonation of a Law Enforcement Officer (a state charge) however the prosecutor likely referred it for Federal Prosecution since he claimed to be an Air Marshal and the federal penalties are much greater. State prosecution was likely declined in lieu of federal prosecution.

"Federal Air Marshal" fullfills the state of Kansas "law enforcement officer" definition. As such, the police officer made a legal arrest for a state charge.

This subject was (based on reading the news article) later released and at some point federal investigators became involved and pursued a federal indictment for impersonating an Air Marshal.

By the way, "False impersonation" is a misdemeanor under State of Kansas law (21-3824 is the statute)

That's fine, but there's a lot of assumptions in your post.

You're assuming the traffic stop wasn't for DUI, which would have given the police all the reason they would have needed to hold him.

Your're assuming that local police charged the subject with anything.

You're assuming that he was held and then released.

The press release and news article mention none of these things.

As for the "theme", I already said that the local police could detain a person for 72 hours without even charging them...that concept has nothing to do with state v. federal authority.

 

[FN FAL]

In addition sat pak, there's the assumption that the local cop knew there was an impersonation at the time and location of the traffic stop.

Nothing in the article or the press release says this.

At best, it says that the crime occurred when the man showed the local cop the id or whatever. That didn't say, that's when the impersonation was detected.

There isn't enough information in the article to determine, how, when, where and by what means the impersonation was detected.

 

[satpak77]

That's fine, but there's a lot of assumptions in your post.

You're assuming the traffic stop wasn't for DUI, which would have given the police all the reason they would have needed to hold him.

Your're assuming that local police charged the subject with anything.

You're assuming that he was held and then released.

The press release and news article mention none of these things.

As for the "theme", I already said that the local police could detain a person for 72 hours without even charging them...that concept has nothing to do with state v. federal authority.

actually you are the one assuming....if the stop was for ANY traffic violation that is PC enough to make the "I am an Air Marshal" arrest

as far as "detain someone for 72 hours without charging them" please clarify this.

Felonies? Misdemeanors? both?

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Wow! Go after them and screw them hard. It's nice guys like you that make this job so fun. Why not talk to them? Better yet, mind your own business. What a thought.

When did say screw anybody? If they are abusing the FFDO status, they should lose it. I didn't say PROSECUTE them.
If they are using credentials solely to avoid taking off their shoes and aren't carrying the weapon, they don't deserve the privilege.
I happen to believe that when you raise your right hand and take an oath, it means something.

 

[gto2002]

I've been told at training they are told how supposedly to get out of tickets and what not. It amost makes going to training worht while.

 

[Lucky Strike]

I've been told at training they are told how supposedly to get out of tickets and what not. It amost makes going to training worht while.

You heard wrong. This is not true.

 

[Phaedrus]

It amost makes going to training worht while.

Another Mensa Society candidate. Keep abusing this program and it will go away. Heck, with 874 cable news networks just itching for some sort of story, just keep posting brilliant thoughts like this one.

 

[gto2002]

Just what a freind told me when he finished training, he did not say itwould work 100% of the time. Question: These aren't the same tools that wear their uniforms to the bars to attract attention? Why else would you want to make your FFDO status known to others outside of the industry?

 

[FN FAL]

actually you are the one assuming....if the stop was for ANY traffic violation that is PC enough to make the "I am an Air Marshal" arrest

How Long's a Chinaman?

as far as "detain someone for 72 hours without charging them" please clarify this.

Felonies? Misdemeanors? both?

If you're not charged, it's neither... it's a warrantless arrest. That's why the popo's have to wait until the judge pulls up his panties on Monday morning and opens up the courthouse for business. Unless Monday is a holiday...then it's Tuesday. Do math...friday afternoon, subject arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor qwidgeybo or felony gawking with intent to mope...the cops aren't sure which one will stick, so they hope for the best.

Popo does the police report, popo takes the man down to photo-id for processing, popo takes the man over to county for secure detention until there can be a judicial review. Monday's a holiday and so the man sits until Tuesday afternoon...thats damb near 80 hours. Then, to top it off, when the judge sees the subject, he gets the man to make a plea agreement on the spot for the misdemeanor of qwidgeybo, if he pleads guilty and pays the 100.00 fine in week. Boom, done deal...next.

Or...the judge sees there's not enough evidence to bind the man over for trial and the man walks.

 

[FN FAL]

I've been told at training they are told how supposedly to get out of tickets and what not. It amost makes going to training worht while.

No, that's called law school. That usually means about 7 years of sitting in classrooms. Or two years on-line at DeVry.

 

[gto2002]

nice

ALthough I do respect they job and contribution on the a/c if there is a problem. I hope more exercise this only in the a/c and not try to outside of it. But that blog does not tell the whole story.

 

[MrPink1911]

Don't know about the rest of the country, but in Texas you can hold a person for 72 hours without charges.... the dept. I worked for had a federal injunction against it and as a result only could hold a suspect for 24 hours before charges needed to be filed, apparently the 72 hours rule was being abused.... oh, and I as a PoDunk Beat cop could arrest then coordinate with the U.S. Attorney's Office (typically firearms or narcotics cases, especially felons in possession of firearms) in order to make the federal case.... And whoever said that the FBI and DEA would be out of business if it were not for the PoDunk beat cops making their case for them was right on the money..... Especially if there were any substantial property or money seizures!!!

 

[erichartmann]

Going back to the TSA site, you are an FFDO only when the cockpit door is shut. You are not "an FFDO just because you are travelling in your vehicle"

In that case, you are an airline pilot who was issued FFDO creds. The title of the program is Federal FLIGHT DECK Officer, and it does not involved enforcement or investigation of anything, other than the defense of the cockpit/flight deck.

Those of you who carry your FFDO creds around thinking you are FFDO's while you shop at Home Depot are in error. At Home Depot you are Joe Blow citizen, and FFDO status does not provide for any special weapons carry ability above and beyond cockpit duties.

If you carry a weapon into the Post Office, and think your FFDO creds will waiver the "no guns in US Govt buildings" rule, you are wrong.

An FFDO who is outside the cockpit remains an FFDO subject to the provisions of his SOP. He may not act as an FFDO outside the cockpit. He is a federal law enforcement officer who is outside of his jurisdiction, but must still act in accordance with the provisions of the SOP. I'm quite sure there are situations in which an FFDO could legally have his issue weapon in his possession in a post office or other facility in which he could not carry a personal weapon, but and this is key, he is not empowered to act i.e. use the weapon. I asked some very specific questions with examples during training.

 

[erichartmann]

Just what a freind told me when he finished training, he did not say itwould work 100% of the time. Question: These aren't the same tools that wear their uniforms to the bars to attract attention? Why else would you want to make your FFDO status known to others outside of the industry?

Actually we were told in no uncertain terms not to try it, if you do and get caught (the copy decides you deserve something more than just a speeding ticket for your efforts) you'll be in a lot of hot water.

 

[satpak77]

How Long's a Chinaman?

If you're not charged, it's neither... it's a warrantless arrest. That's why the popo's have to wait until the judge pulls up his panties on Monday morning and opens up the courthouse for business. Unless Monday is a holiday...then it's Tuesday. Do math...friday afternoon, subject arrested on suspicion of misdemeanor qwidgeybo or felony gawking with intent to mope...the cops aren't sure which one will stick, so they hope for the best.

Popo does the police report, popo takes the man down to photo-id for processing, popo takes the man over to county for secure detention until there can be a judicial review. Monday's a holiday and so the man sits until Tuesday afternoon...thats damb near 80 hours. Then, to top it off, when the judge sees the subject, he gets the man to make a plea agreement on the spot for the misdemeanor of qwidgeybo, if he pleads guilty and pays the 100.00 fine in week. Boom, done deal...next.

Or...the judge sees there's not enough evidence to bind the man over for trial and the man walks.

FN, all crimes are either felonies or misdeamenors, period. Whether the arrest is with warrant or not, is independent of whether it is a felony or not.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I've been told at training they are told how supposedly to get out of tickets and what not. It amost makes going to training worht while.

I've tried it and it doesn't work. Evidently showing your tits only works if you are female. imp:

 

[Occam's Razor]

An FFDO who is outside the cockpit remains an FFDO subject to the provisions of his SOP. He may not act as an FFDO outside the cockpit. He is a federal law enforcement officer who is outside of his jurisdiction, but must still act in accordance with the provisions of the SOP. I'm quite sure there are situations in which an FFDO could legally have his issue weapon in his possession in a post office or other facility in which he could not carry a personal weapon, but and this is key, he is not empowered to act i.e. use the weapon. I asked some very specific questions with examples during training.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!

According to the "FFDO Legal Authority, Use of Force, and Liability" class we took, you are an FFDO all the time, but you may only exercise your authority while in a mission status, in the cockpit.

Pot bust at a college reunion? You were an FFDO arrested for pot, even though you weren't "on duty". You are double possum-f#$%#&!

DUI? Ditto. You get three government agencies worth of scrutiny for that one! (local, FAA, TSA)

You can carry your creds any dang time you choose, since they are a government-issued ID...but you must comply with the SOP if/when you decide to show them to somebody. Can you show them to the surly know-it-all clerk at the sporting goods store to buy ammo? Yup.

Can you use your H&K to shoot a burglar? Yup...but you ain't covered by ATSA (49 U.S.C. $114 (q)(3)).

Can you go deer hunting with it? Yup...since it's not prohibited. Again, no coverage by Uncle Sugar.

Can you use your creds to get out of a traffic ticket? NoyesWay! It's a matter of technique, not policy. "Officer I was speeding home to clean my government-issued USP after/before my requal at _________ (local cop range)." If he/she asks to see your badge...you are authorized to comply.

Naturally...some dorks will push the envelope. They "smooth out the curve" for the rest of us.

 

[FN FAL]

FN, all crimes are either felonies or misdeamenors, period. Whether the arrest is with warrant or not, is independent of whether it is a felony or not.

No kidding? Damb, you're good.

 

[FN FAL]

Don't know about the rest of the country, but in Texas you can hold a person for 72 hours without charges...

...or longer, it's not the cops fault that the request to charge form was sitting in the prosecutor's in basket all weekend long.

I know a married couple that spent Friday to Tuesday in the clink, the wife was released at the arraignment hearing on the Tuesday because of insufficient evidence. I think the husband plead and paid a simple fine at the arraignment hearing.

 

[boxesdontbitch]

the skinny

Okay, i actually know this guy. He and I were in the same guard unit (im retired) and still live in the same city. ..He was pulled over for a traffic violation and did try the ole "brother law enforcement" bit to dodge it. stupid, but not criminal. he did not claim he was a federl airmarshall but a part of the airmarshall program. trying to explain the FFDO program to someone who never heard of it. Then a couple of weeks later the feds show up to "just ask a few questions, to clear up this misunderstanding" Just a friendly chat, no need for a lawyer or anything. Next thing he knows hes indicted and the whole thing has literally become a federal case. Now he has a DA who wants a juicy career enhancing case (maybe get on FOX news!) and the feds with an axe to grind on FFDO's in general. So far American has told him that unless he is convicted they have no problem. The Air Guard though has grounded him and revoked security clearances until this is resolved. So if you are in the FFDO program, beware. You cannot dick around with this and skate by. Lots of confusion about your legal status as "law enforcement"

 

[Occam's Razor]

Okay, i actually know this guy. He and I were in the same guard unit (im retired) and still live in the same city. ..He was pulled over for a traffic violation and did try the ole "brother law enforcement" bit to dodge it. stupid, but not criminal. he did not claim he was a federl airmarshall but a part of the airmarshall program. trying to explain the FFDO program to someone who never heard of it. Then a couple of weeks later the feds show up to "just ask a few questions, to clear up this misunderstanding" Just a friendly chat, no need for a lawyer or anything. Next thing he knows hes indicted and the whole thing has literally become a federal case. Now he has a DA who wants a juicy career enhancing case (maybe get on FOX news!) and the feds with an axe to grind on FFDO's in general. So far American has told him that unless he is convicted they have no problem. The Air Guard though has grounded him and revoked security clearances until this is resolved. So if you are in the FFDO program, beware. You cannot dick around with this and skate by. Lots of confusion about your legal status as "law enforcement"

Good gouge, and an important safety tip!

The extra scrutiny isn't exclusively for FFDO's. Even if you aren't in uniform, don't have your pilot's license with you, and you are not actually flying an airplane...get a DUI and the FAA will make your life more interesting.

We're "special"!

 

[skiandsurf]

Good gouge, and an important safety tip!

The extra scrutiny isn't exclusively for FFDO's. Even if you aren't in uniform, don't have your pilot's license with you, and you are not actually flying an airplane...get a DUI and the FAA will make your life more interesting.

We're "special"!

This is why I never went thru the program. Its all for show, with no support.

I do know an FFDO, and he does use the badge to get his family into Disneyland and knotts Berry Farm for free on "Police day". Was also with him at a "pay parking" garage. He flashed the badge and asked the guy "if they give free parking to law enforcement officers?" The guy let us drive out without paying. Keep in mind that he was "impressing" 20 year old kids, not cops.

 

[Occam's Razor]

This is why I never went thru the program. Its all for show, with no support.

The "show" for NOT going through the program is the "shoe dance and laptop screen" by the white shirts at the airport. I enjoy watching it as I sign in and get in front of you at Starbucks on the other side.

I do know an FFDO,

Me too! He sleeps with my wife!

...and he does use the badge to get his family into Disneyland and knotts Berry Farm for free on "Police day". Was also with him at a "pay parking" garage. He flashed the badge and asked the guy "if they give free parking to law enforcement officers?" The guy let us drive out without paying. Keep in mind that he was "impressing" 20 year old kids, not cops.

It's all in the technique.

I actually used my status as a captain to do something special once. We were on a cruise in the Caribbean, and I took the tour of the bridge. The captain was on duty at the time, and I explained to him that I was a captain too. He actually set me steer the ship! It was kinda creepy sitting on his lap, but other than that, it was fun.

 

[ReverseSensing]

NoyesWay! It's a matter of technique, not policy.

The words are Occam's, but the voice I hear the words in belong to my wife. :0

 

[AceCrackshot]

Okay, i actually know this guy. He and I were in the same guard unit (im retired) and still live in the same city. ..He was pulled over for a traffic violation and did try the ole "brother law enforcement" bit to dodge it. stupid, but not criminal. he did not claim he was a federl airmarshall but a part of the airmarshall program. trying to explain the FFDO program to someone who never heard of it. Then a couple of weeks later the feds show up to "just ask a few questions, to clear up this misunderstanding" Just a friendly chat, no need for a lawyer or anything. Next thing he knows hes indicted and the whole thing has literally become a federal case. Now he has a DA who wants a juicy career enhancing case (maybe get on FOX news!) and the feds with an axe to grind on FFDO's in general. So far American has told him that unless he is convicted they have no problem. The Air Guard though has grounded him and revoked security clearances until this is resolved. So if you are in the FFDO program, beware. You cannot dick around with this and skate by. Lots of confusion about your legal status as "law enforcement"

Lessons learned:
There is no such thing as a "friendly chat" with a .gov lawyer. Always lawyer up.

A portion of fed cops are screaming d1cks. How about going after a real violent criminal, chief? There are one or two around. Instead, we'll go after the slam-dunk on Joe Private Citizen who happens to be a former .mil officer. What a joke.

Unnecessary ad hominums deleted.

 

[frog_flyer]

few more:

"i dont have my license bc the bar took it when i refused to give them my keys"

cop: how much have you had tonight??
you: "not enough to keep me from cringing at the sight of your wife!!"

female cop: "how much you had tonight?"
you: "too much; cause you're lookin good right now"

this is as good as i can do whilst sippin on tecate with lime watchin the masters

 

[Uppercrust]

When did say screw anybody? If they are abusing the FFDO status, they should lose it. I didn't say PROSECUTE them.
If they are using credentials solely to avoid taking off their shoes and aren't carrying the weapon, they don't deserve the privilege.
I happen to believe that when you raise your right hand and take an oath, it means something.

No offense seriously.. I just don't think it is any of our business nor do I CARE IF THEY GET AROUND SECURITY. Taking off their shoes is not a requirement to get on an aircraft. How about MX personel... how do they get on the ramp??

Also, taking an oath has nothing do with with not carrying your weapon and bypassing security. Sorry, I just don't agree.

 

[FN FAL]

Then a couple of weeks later the feds show up to "just ask a few questions, to clear up this misunderstanding" Just a friendly chat, no need for a lawyer or anything. Next thing he knows hes indicted and the whole thing has literally become a federal case.

"Friendly chat"?

Priceless.