AA Pilot Busted for Impersonating Cop

[Melon]

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2006/04/airline_pilot_u.html

 

[Secret Squirrel]

How much you wanna bet he was a federal flight deck officer and flashed his ID to get out of a ticket. The officer got pissed when he found out the truth because the pilot was a prick about it and this is where we stand now. That is one problem with the whole program. The ID lets you carry a firearm but it gives you no other powers and it is obvious the federal government does not want it and will not support those who have it.

Or he could just be a complete idiot.

SS

 

[FN FAL]

You got to love this gem of a response to the article:

turNING ON THE CAPS KEY SO IT WILL LOOK LIKE I AM SHOUTING.
THIS ARREST IS JUST ANOTHER INSANE EXAMPLE OF RACIAL INJUSTICE. JUST BECAUSE THE MAN WAS CLAIMING TO BE AN AIR MARSHALL DOES NOT MAKE HIM A CRIMINAL. EVERYTIME THE RACIST COPS SEE AN OTHERWISE HONEST THUG, THEY ASSUME HE IS BLACK. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP. DO THE COPS STOP EVERY CRIMINAL JUST BECAUSE HE IS OF A DIFFERENT MINORITY? HOW MANY WHITE AIR MARSHALL IMPERSONATORS DID THEY STOP DURING THE SAME TIME PERIOD? EVERYTHING IS SO RACIST. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE. HE WAS SUCH A SWEET BOY WHO NEVER DID NOTHING TO NOBODY. WHY, HE WOULD GIVE THE SHIRT OFF OF HIS BACK TO ANYBODY AND HE PROBABLY HAD AN UNFORTUNATE UPBRINGING.

 

[FN FAL]

How much you wanna bet he was a federal flight deck officer and flashed his ID to get out of a ticket. The officer got pissed when he found out the truth...

Local police officers can walk around ticked off 24/7/365, that doesn't have a thing to do with the impersonation indictment in federal court and the federal investigator's claim of "making a false statement'.

Are you claiming that because the pilot ticked off the police man, that the police man did something mean to the pilot?

I don't think so, the feds have their own agenda and authority to enforce the law and prosecute...and they don't do what local popo's tell them to do.

I have a feeling that there were probably at least one or several chances when the pilot was given an opportunity at a lessor outcome, but didn't take it for one reason or another. At least that's my gut feeling...I could be wrong, there really isn't that much information to go on in this article.

Commercial pilot indicted on federal charges

BY HURST LAVIANA

The Wichita Eagle

An American Airlines pilot has been indicted by a federal grand jury in Wichita on charges of impersonating a federal air marshal and making a false statement to a federal investigator, the U.S. attorney's office said Wednesday.

Peter V. Austin, 42, of Wichita, was indicted in a case relating to a March 5 stop by Park City police, according to a news release from the U.S. attorney's office.

A woman who answered the phone at Austin's home said the family would have no comment.

The indictment does not detail the events surrounding that stop, and the Park City Police Department in a statement said it would not comment on the case because of its sensitive nature and its relationship to national security.

If convicted, Austin faces up to three years in prison and a fine up to $250,000 on the impersonation charge, and five years in prison and a fine up to $250,000 on the charge of making a false statement to a federal investigator. There is no parole from federal prison.

The case was investigated by the Transportation Security Administration.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

As a local police officer I often brought cases to the federal prosecutors. Usually they were drug and gun charges. But the Feds were always looking for good cases. Just because he was a LOCAL POPO does not mean he can not take it to the feds, which would be the appropriate place to bring such a charge. There were a lot of benefits to charging federally. Mostly no time off for good behavior.

And what I am saying is that if someone falsely claimed to me, when I was a cop, that he was a federal law enforcement officer and then turned out to not be one I would be pissed and pursue it.

I will give the guy the benefit of the doubt until the facts come out and I am sure there is probably more to the case. What I was trying to bring up was the problems with the FFDO program. Guess I was too vague.

SS

 

[FN FAL]

As a local police officer I often brought cases to the federal prosecutors. Usually they were drug and gun charges. But the Feds were always looking for good cases. Just because he was a LOCAL POPO does not mean he can not take it to the feds, which would be the appropriate place to bring such a charge. There were a lot of benefits to charging federally. Mostly no time off for good behavior.

And what I am saying is that if someone falsely claimed to me, when I was a cop, that he was a federal law enforcement officer and then turned out to not be one I would be pissed and pursue it.

I will give the guy the benefit of the doubt until the facts come out and I am sure there is probably more to the case. What I was trying to bring up was the problems with the FFDO program. Guess I was too vague.

SS

So, you're saying a local beat cop just determines it's better to charge a subject federally, so he drives to the federal building instead of his own station house with the subject?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I can't say personally for every department in the country but we did. We could either charge them locally or state to put them in jail and then have the local DA forward the info to the Feds or walk the information over to the federal building and ask them to take the case. How did you think they got their cases? If they only took cases the FBI & DEA put together then they would be the slowest offices in the country.

Federal cases were great. They went to federal prison where the time they got was the time they did. There are lots of cases where the fruits of the crime make it a federal case. Like I said guns and drugs. If we had a drug case that involved a firearm it automatically went to the Feds. Fake money, immigration offenses, and as it looks like impersonating a federal officer.

SS

 

[FN FAL]

You can hold a person without local charges for 72 hours.

As for some joe blow beat cop sauntering over to the federal building with state property on state time, I still don't understand that part. Unless it was a one cop town and you were the police chief.

 

[satpak77]

You can hold a person without local charges for 72 hours.

As for some joe blow beat cop sauntering over to the federal building with state property on state time, I still don't understand that part. Unless it was a one cop town and you were the police chief.

A state/local can present evidence acquired in the course of his duties to the Assistant US Attorneys office if federal charges can be brought. Most commonly, this applies to drug, immigration, gun type cases.::

EX:

1) If Officer Jones with PoDunk PD stops a van full of illegals, and two have guns on them, this will be made known to the prosecutor, when INS presents its case.

2) Sheriff Deputy Smith stops someone with an FBI badge and claims to be an FBI agent. Deputy Smith later discovers that this in fact is not true. Smith Mirandizes the subject who still admits guilt. FBI shows up and the subject refuses to make additional statements, since the "feds are here."
All statements by the fake FBI agent are allowable in the federal prosecution even tho the only person to hear them was Deputy Smith.

3) A city council member is using his position to conduct contract fraud and abuse of authority against local businesses. It is determined that he is falsifying various documents, one which allows federal housing funds to go into his pocket. This will likely result in a joint State/Federal prosecution.

As far as "joe blow beat cop sauntering into the federal building" usually that is not what happens anyway. Most matters which need investigation follow-up discovered by the Patrol section ("beat cop") are referred to that departments CID/Detective section, which typically has liasion with FBI, DEA, etc in that town. In simplistic terms, cases in which a subject may be indicted, further charged later, or are unsolved, are put in the CID "in-box" at the station. If it might go to court, CID typically will get it.

These would be missing children, domestic abuse, bank robbery, check fraud, etc etc to name only a few. Cases typically NOT placed in CID in-box are traffic violations (except DUI type stuff), "maintain the peace" type calls (loud party, etc), suspicious vehicles calls, dead animals, etc

If something is federally prosecutable, the investigation will be "launched" from CID in most cases.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Well I am sure your experience with Law & Order and Andie Griffith are far superior to my years as an actual police officer. 72 hours without charges? Good luck in real life but I think I did see that once on hill street blues.

I am not trying to tell you what happened in this case, just telling it like it was in mine.

 

[Popeye0537]

How much you wanna bet he was a federal flight deck officer and flashed his ID to get out of a ticket. The officer got pissed when he found out the truth because the pilot was a prick about it and this is where we stand now. That is one problem with the whole program. The ID lets you carry a firearm but it gives you no other powers and it is obvious the federal government does not want it and will not support those who have it.

Or he could just be a complete idiot.

SS

What problem's do you see with the program?? I'm sure this guy did more than just flashed his creds.

Also are you an FFDO? I assume not..."no powers"

As an ex-cop you should know that people will hand out business cards of police officers that they know to try to get off. I cant tell you how many times that happened to me...but it dosen't "piss" me off.

Also we can hold a person for 72 hours if we suspect they are a danger to themselves. 5150

 

[Secret Squirrel]

That case is a mental health evaluation and not detained without cause. I know it happends but not at my level. And I had lots of people hand me business cards but they were usually telling me they were a snitch for said officer. If I did not know about the FFDO program and a pilot showed it to me saying he was a federal law enforcement officer for the TSA or DOT or something he is breaking the law and will go to jail.

I am not a FFDO but talked with lots of guys who have gone through the program. The program is a red headed step child that was rushed through without thought of how it was going to be implemented. First you have to take your own time off. While I am sure the training is top notch I worry about the proficiency. As an officer I trained monthly with department amunition. Most people I have talked to only got it so they could bypass security and don't even carry their weapon. That worries me about their dedication to the program. Plus I can think of one trip in the last year I could have taken it on with all the restrictions on international travel. All that and I have talked to captains who said they would only take FFDO's from their own airline which would restrict my getting to work. Finally, who do you think would back you up in the case you had to actually shoot someone. People like FN FAL would rake you over the coals saying you were some wild cowboy. The media would crusify you. Your company? Now way. Your government? Yea right. Maybe your union if you are lucky to have a good one. You will be hung out to dry.

 

[Eagleflip]

Secret Squirrel, you should have stepped back from the keyboard just after you typed "I am not a FFDO but ...", as everything after that is garbage.

 

[FR8mastr]

That case is a mental health evaluation and not detained without cause. I know it happends but not at my level. And I had lots of people hand me business cards but they were usually telling me they were a snitch for said officer. If I did not know about the FFDO program and a pilot showed it to me saying he was a federal law enforcement officer for the TSA or DOT or something he is breaking the law and will go to jail.

Why would an FFDO go to jail?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Then tell me how it is good. I told you my opinion and all you did is post "it is garbage". That is not constructive, it is crap.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Why would an FFDO go to jail?

Pretending to be a law enforcement officer. That is what this thread is about.

 

[Hamburgler]

I read some freaky article recently about people who impersonate cops and rape/kill - it was very scary. It said that if you are a woman getting stopped in an isolated area to slow down and put your hazards on and call 911 from a cell to see if the dispatcher knows of a cruiser trying to pull over someone with your plates. That, or drive to a populated area. Crazy you have to worry about crap like this.

 

[LearLove]

some rules to follow if you get pulled over

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/34.html

 

[Eagleflip]

Secret, perhaps I should couch my answer in another, more informative, way.

You said that you have not attended the program, then you proceeded to analyze the problems with said program. You questioned the motivation to participate, FFDO proficiency, standard operating procedures, and indemnification from FFDO action.

I guess I don't understand how someone admitedly unfamiliar with the program, aside from anectdotal conversations with a few FFDOs, can opine with authority on the shortcomings of the program.

Thus, I inferred that you don't know what you are talking about, opinion or not. I was perhaps a bit short with you. Thus, this explanation is more involved.

By the way, I'm speaking as a FI member, not a Mod, so you may argue with me with impunity. Heck, everybody else does!

 

[Blucher]

Well said, sir.

-Blucher

 

[Flyerjosh]

Pretending to be a law enforcement officer. That is what this thread is about.

Um no. Contrary to your belief an FFDO IS a law enforcement officer. Since you don't know what the person that the article is about actually did, it's dangerous to make assumptions. Perhaps he wasn't even an FFDO and figured that he might try and "sneak" through security by posing as one.

I've been pulled over while carrying my weapon. (I'll be the first to admit that I was in a hurry to get home at 3am after a very long day). When stopped by the officer, I didn't "pose" as a federal officer, but simply stated that I had a weapon in the vehicle and would happily show him my credentials, after which he asked me to step out, and provide him with some ID. We chatted for about 5 minutes, he gave me a warning, and I was on my way.

I doubt that there are any cops out there that haven't heard about armed pilots. It's had so much media attention, that pretty much everybody knows. Besides, if there is an issue about the identity of an FFDO, it can be resolved VERY QUICKLY by calling up the Transporation Security Operations Center.

 

[MDPilot]

Pretending to be a law enforcement officer. That is what this thread is about.

Funny, my FFDO creds say "XXXX XXXXXX who is deputized, in accordance with 49 USC section 44921(d), as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer." I submit that you are entirely wrong.

 

[IronWalt]

You know, the BOTTOM LINE in all of this is:

Tis best to be honest in your dealings. Especially when dealing with law enforcement people. They are trained to detect horse******************** and often do.

 

[satpak77]

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_multi_image_with_table_0211.xml

http://www.alpa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=233

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/0409/

(NOTE: all are public articles widely available on the internet, to include TSA's own website)

(From TSA): FFDOs will be Federal law enforcement officers only for the limited purposes of carrying firearms and using force to defend the flight deck of an aircraft from air piracy or criminal violence including lethal force.

FFDOs loose their legal status as law enforcement outside of the cockpit/aviation security context. Driving down main street USA in the minivan you do not meet the "law enforcement officer" status per TSA.

Outside of the cockpit door, you are not an FFDO, inside the cockpit door, you are.

As far as the AA pilot, whatever he said was likely captured on car camera and audio mike. "I am an Air Marshal" is clear cut a false statement. "I am an FFDO" is something else.

"I have a weapon in the car, since I am coming from work and I am commisioned as an FFDO due to my job as an airline pilot" is the best answer

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Secret, perhaps I should couch my answer in another, more informative, way.

You said that you have not attended the program, then you proceeded to analyze the problems with said program. You questioned the motivation to participate, FFDO proficiency, standard operating procedures, and indemnification from FFDO action.

I guess I don't understand how someone admitedly unfamiliar with the program, aside from anectdotal conversations with a few FFDOs, can opine with authority on the shortcomings of the program.

Thus, I inferred that you don't know what you are talking about, opinion or not. I was perhaps a bit short with you. Thus, this explanation is more involved.

By the way, I'm speaking as a FI member, not a Mod, so you may argue with me with impunity. Heck, everybody else does!

Well I have probably flown with 15 FFDO's. Only one actually carried. The company I am with use to support people who wanted to go and actually gave them paid time off. That changed. So we actually have a lot on property. He was the only one who said he trained frequently. The others said the only time they shot was at the 6 month training and that was because that was the only time they got ammo paid for. Three of the guys said they did it just to get thru security without taking their shoes off. The rest said it is too much of a pain because they go out of the country too often. Out of 15 I have seen one qualified FFDO. And I was unhappy with him because he had one of the stickers. I actually asked him about FFDO before he told me he was one. Is that safe?

As a normal person I find 1 out of 15 scarry. As a person who delt with firearms as a professional I think it is a disgrace. And I blame the program for this. Where is the structure? Where is the oversight?

Now you tell me how it is good. The only thing you have told me is that I am wrong. you have not given any evidence.

ss

 

[ATRCA]

That case is a mental health evaluation and not detained without cause. I know it happends but not at my level. And I had lots of people hand me business cards but they were usually telling me they were a snitch for said officer. If I did not know about the FFDO program and a pilot showed it to me saying he was a federal law enforcement officer for the TSA or DOT or something he is breaking the law and will go to jail.

I am not a FFDO but talked with lots of guys who have gone through the program. The program is a red headed step child that was rushed through without thought of how it was going to be implemented. First you have to take your own time off. While I am sure the training is top notch I worry about the proficiency. As an officer I trained monthly with department amunition. Most people I have talked to only got it so they could bypass security and don't even carry their weapon. That worries me about their dedication to the program. Plus I can think of one trip in the last year I could have taken it on with all the restrictions on international travel. All that and I have talked to captains who said they would only take FFDO's from their own airline which would restrict my getting to work. Finally, who do you think would back you up in the case you had to actually shoot someone. People like FN FAL would rake you over the coals saying you were some wild cowboy. The media would crusify you. Your company? Now way. Your government? Yea right. Maybe your union if you are lucky to have a good one. You will be hung out to dry.

Monthly shooting at the local PD? Sounds like you did that on your own time. Most local PD's do not require monthly quals. and you know that. The FFDO program requires 6 month quals and that is modest I would guess, but most local PO's are hardly marksman.

Also, denying a jumpseater because of their participation in the FFDO program will get you in much hot water. A quick read of the founding documents will clear that up for you.

 

[Lucky Strike]

If I did not know about the FFDO program and a pilot showed it to me saying he was a federal law enforcement officer for the TSA or DOT or something he is breaking the law and will go to jail.

An FFDO is a law enforcement officer. Your jurisdiction stops at the cockpit door. Just because your traveling in your vehicle ...you are still an FFDO...you're just out of your jurisdiction. You are required to identify yourself if stopped by law enforcement and admit the fact that you have a weapon. Obviously, the AA pilot did something wrong, or he wouldn't be in hot water...but don't bad-mouth the FFDO program because of it. Apples and oranges.

 

[EMB Skillz]

Pretending to be a law enforcement officer. That is what this thread is about.

Do you believe in "innocent until proven guilty"?

Did you take bribes or beat suspects in custody?

Did an FFDO take your lunch money away?

Were you really a cop?

Are you angry over childhood issues?

Please share, flightinfo users are great listeners and your identity will not be compromised.

 

[ATRCA]

http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_multi_image_with_table_0211.xml

http://www.alpa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=233

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/0409/

(NOTE: all are public articles widely available on the internet, to include TSA's own website)



FFDOs loose their legal status as law enforcement outside of the cockpit/aviation security context. Driving down main street USA in the minivan you do not meet the "law enforcement officer" status per TSA.

Outside of the cockpit door, you are not an FFDO, inside the cockpit door, you are.

As far as the AA pilot, whatever he said was likely captured on car camera and audio mike. "I am an Air Marshal" is clear cut a false statement. "I am an FFDO" is something else.

"I have a weapon in the car, since I am coming from work and I am commisioned as an FFDO due to my job as an airline pilot" is the best answer

I don't think you are quite accurate here. You are an FFDO after you have been sworn in. It has nothing to do with wether or not you are transporting a weapon. You're a pilot even when you are not in an airplane. An FFDO not at work has no law enforcement rights or weapons rights that have not been granted to him by the program but nontheless he is still an FFDO, which BTW is a federal law enforcement designation.

The weapon and the cockpit are not required to call yourself an FFDO, just like a PO traveling outside their home jurisdiction is still a PO. Many PO's have fairly restricted rights outside there home jurisdiction, the same applies here.

 

[satpak77]

If I did not know about the FFDO program and a pilot showed it to me saying he was a federal law enforcement officer for the TSA or DOT or something he is breaking the law and will go to jail.

An FFDO is a law enforcement officer. Your jurisdiction stops at the cockpit door. Just because your traveling in your vehicle ...you are still an FFDO...you're just out of your jurisdiction. You are required to identify yourself if stopped by law enforcement and admit the fact that you have a weapon. Obviously, the AA pilot did something wrong, or he wouldn't be in hot water...but don't bad-mouth the FFDO program because of it. Apples and oranges.

Going back to the TSA site, you are an FFDO only when the cockpit door is shut. You are not "an FFDO just because you are travelling in your vehicle"

In that case, you are an airline pilot who was issued FFDO creds. The title of the program is Federal FLIGHT DECK Officer, and it does not involved enforcement or investigation of anything, other than the defense of the cockpit/flight deck.

Those of you who carry your FFDO creds around thinking you are FFDO's while you shop at Home Depot are in error. At Home Depot you are Joe Blow citizen, and FFDO status does not provide for any special weapons carry ability above and beyond cockpit duties.

If you carry a weapon into the Post Office, and think your FFDO creds will waiver the "no guns in US Govt buildings" rule, you are wrong.