AA lets the ax fall again... 44 more on 3/2/05

[aa73]

When will it stop... Everyone else is recalling... Earth to AA, over....

Very, very sad.

 

[tranceport]

"thank you again" ?

 

[Splert]

Would you please edit the name of the pilots for goodness sake?

Please feel to use the EDIT button...

Geesh...

 

[CUEBOAT]

when it rains, it pours.

 

[slowto250]

Just ran into two guys in the crew lounge fighting over a razor blade. Believe their names were Pat and Todd, but can't say for sure.

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Why in the world would AA stop furloughing, How else are they suppose to create openings for the Eagle pilots unless they keep on doing what they've been doing since 9/11. Furlough AA pilots, give their routes to Eagle, Eagle get to hire the AA pilots (if they want the job and can pass the sim/interview) to fly the same routes for less money...


Its disheartening what is happening to the "Major" Airline pilots of today. Weve begun to eat our own just for the shot of getting a job and there no end in sight.

If you can imagine a negitive being tuned into a positive, Years ago, I thought I was the biggest looser in the world, AA turned me down. Now looking back, Its a good thing AA turned me down, Id been Furloughed long ago... Then, I got hire at UPS... whod a thunk... Keep your chins up guys, hopefully good things will come from this...

BBDC8

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Would you please edit the name of the pilots for goodness sake?

Please feel to use the EDIT button...

Geesh...

No KIDDING!!!!!! GEEZSH what the heck are you thinking? What if that were Your FULL name and ID number?????????????

 

[satpak77]

sheesh

almost 3000 dudes on the street

I wonder:

1. When they all will be back at work
2. When #1 is fulfilled, when new pilot hiring will start

Can someone guess?

5 yrs?

10 yrs? (no joke, seriously...)

 

[lowoilpress]

Do you own a dart board?


Seriously, I don't think that anyone could make a prognosis that's of any use. Let's just say...don'thold your breath. I've got a lot of friends in that group and I wish them godspeed.
Wearing the scarlet F sux.

 

[typhoonpilot]

almost 3000 dudes on the street

I wonder:

1. When they all will be back at work
2. When #1 is fulfilled, when new pilot hiring will start

Can someone guess?

5 yrs?

10 yrs? (no joke, seriously...)

If American begins to recall at the rate of 400 per year immediately after they furlough the group in March it would take just over 7 years for them to recall all 2800+ pilots. Obviously they aren't going to start recalls right away and might even furlough more so your 10 year figure is no joke.

It is definitely not a joke when you live through it . I was furloughed for 7 years and 3 months. The most important thing for the guys on furlough, even the guy who is number one to be recalled, is to live your life like you are not ever going back. Start over again and go forward with your career ( or start a different career ). If and when the recall comes then you can make a decision whether or not to go back based on the facts at the time. If you sit around waiting for a recall that might not ever come and don't take advantage of available opportunities then you might live to regret it. Definitely try to keep the seniority number in your back pocket, but act like it won't ever matter that you have it.


Typhoonpilot

 

[CSY Mon]

If you sit around waiting for a recall that might not ever come and don't take advantage of available opportunities then you might live to regret it. Definitely try to keep the seniority number in your back pocket, but act like it won't ever matter that you have it.

Good advice Mr. Typhoonpilot:

Too many of us thought: "This is my last flying job" once we were past probation and had furloguh protection in the contract.

Wrong again.

I sat around for a while waiting for a recall, but finally gave up and now back flying.....Lemme see, flying job # 20 or so...Surprised anybody hired my, resume looks like a disaster.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

It is indeed sickening seeing what is happening at AA as well as most legacy airlines. Seeing AA pilots continue to be furloughed three and a half years after 9/11 is hard to believe. What is even worse is that while AA continues to furlough, Trans States, Chautaqua and Eagle continue to hire 21 year old kids to do basically the same thing on the same routes for just a fraction of the pay that the AA pilots enjoyed. What is even harder to fathom is that these lousy "feeder airlines" still have no difficulty finding 21 year old kids that are not only willing, but eager to fly a regional jet for $18,000 a year. Sorry to be so negative, but I can't help but feel bitter about what has happened and what is still happening at AA as well as the other legacy airlines.

 

[captain]

There were always some folks at AA and AE that said that they should merge the lists, although nobody thought it would bhappen like this...

 

[semperfido]

it is a different world for sure. what is happening seems to be the inevitable result of deregulation and a free market economy and the slowness of many to adapt. opportunity for many people and a large dose of unwanted reality for many more. what will it look like in 5 years? 10 years?

 

[miles otoole]

What is even harder to fathom is that these lousy "feeder airlines" still have no difficulty finding 21 year old kids that are not only willing, but eager to fly a regional jet for $18,000 a year.

Don't you mean 29, 30, 31 year old college degreed, married with kids, kids?

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

Welcome to the AAPA wimp-line for Wednesday, Jan 5. As you are now hearing, we continue to win together by pulling another 44 colleagues from our payroll. Us senior boys that you, the clueless and the scared, keep electing to run this so-called union have been trying to tell you junior pukes for months to find another job. Sinking in yet? We would have liked to get the word out to you sooner but you gots to realize we’ve been out of the country strategizing and such and just didn’t have the time. On the plus side, the timing of these furloughs should present the opportunity for a lot of us to belly up for some Spring Break/Easter OT. Maybe even some premium dollars if we’re lucky. That’s all for today, thanks for calling.

 

[TWA Dude]

What is even harder to fathom is that these lousy "feeder airlines" still have no difficulty finding 21 year old kids that are not only willing, but eager to fly a regional jet for $18,000 a year.

If I may beg to differ, what you are perceiving shouldn't be hard to fathom because nothing's changed in the past ten or even twenty years. There is no bar to be lowered and there never has been. The economic boom of the late 90's saw a nice bubble in the legacy carriers' that's all but gone now. The airline pilot career remains static in quality. I believe what frustrates so many is that it isn't improving like we wish it would. It's just reality that the airline industry is and always has been marginal and labor inevitably suffers. I'm not implying that we shouldn't keep working to improve things but expectations must be realistic.

AA is a great airline to hate. They're disfunctional in just about every way. Having lived through a seniority merger and subsequent furlough I've seen an awful lot of bitterness and anger. It's just not worth it. One must look forward and not backward. Perhaps AA will be a nice place to work someday, (and I'm not sure it ever was), but right now there are few happy places for pilots to work and it's going to be this way for quite a while. The commuters and the LCC's are only convenient targets for misplaced anger. The legacy carriers aren't in deep poopoo because of them; they're in poopoo because of themselves.

Alright, I'm done pontificating. Back to my decent job and lousy commute.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

I am not really sure that I follow you. All I know is that by March, there will be nearly 3000 AA pilots on furlough. Meanwhile, Trans States, Chautaqua and Eagle continue to grow and get larger equipment (while paying slave wages). It is clear that AA is simply "farming out" the mainline flying to the above airlines. I think I am entitled to be a little frustrated seeing as how I have been furloughed for nearly three years now with no end in sight. It seems that you have come to grips with the situation, but it appears that things have worked out well for you now that you have made it to AWA. I have not been that fortunate and it is becoming clear that my flying days are probably over. By the way, it is good to see a former TWA move on to something better. Congratulations!

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Ahh...That's the million dollar question.

Are the furloughs a normal and inevitable result of permanent forces in our industry? (Will the regionals keep getting bigger while others get smaller?)

Or

Is it temporary as carriers on the brink get weaker (despite government/stakeholder aid) and eventually fail?

And

Is EVERY carrier doomed to repeat this cycle?




Tidbits:

Americans love to buy their chinese made goods at Walmart.

The world trade organization is easing restrictions on Chinese made goods.

The government, and voters, like keeping the weak carriers aloft so all carriers remain weak. Weakness = Lower fares and more choices, or so the saying goes among industry watchers.


Should we all go cargo??? Can this cycle happen in cargo?

 

[Whale Rider]

Sorry to hear it guys, 44 more of our brothers on the street. Aloha Airlines just sent 10 furlough notices to their guys this morning. Scary time for us all.

 

[TWA Dude]

Wyo: I certainly have no right to deny you your frustration. I'm only trying to point out my belief that much of the anger at the industry right now comes from unrealistic expectations. Yes, CHQ and TSA are growing (and BTW I've flown for BOTH) but they are not the reason why AA is still furloughing. They do pay slave wages but then that's always been the case so why should it be any different now? They fly jets but it's still an entry level job even though it becomes a career position for some (by choice or otherwise). Airline management does what management is supposed to do: manage costs. Regional airlines are a false economy anyway in that they live or die by their codeshares. It doesn't make sense to me to look at regional growth enviously. When the economy will support it the legacies will grow too.

These may not be comforting thoughts for you but they save me from bitterness. I am indeed lucky. A year ago I was gunning for ATA. Some say that everything happens for a reason but I say hogwash. Sometimes poop just happens. Good luck to you. There are still reasonably good jobs out there and eventually you'll get one.

 

[semperfido]

I am not really sure that I follow you. All I know is that by March, there will be nearly 3000 AA pilots on furlough. Meanwhile, Trans States, Chautaqua and Eagle continue to grow and get larger equipment (while paying slave wages).

there will probably be few recalls. the "slave" wages are in fact the market wages now. it is a result of competition, pure and simple. supply and demand.

 

[BFC Lone Wolf]

Plenty of room at American Eagle for the furloughs, we are displacing our captiains to make room for AA pilots. Displacing 8 year captains for junior AA guys. hmmmmmm

 

[aa73]

Plenty of room at American Eagle for the furloughs, we are displacing our captiains to make room for AA pilots. Displacing 8 year captains for junior AA guys. hmmmmmm

I highly doubt all furloughees flow back, in fact the # I've been told was about half. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty situation for the Eagle pilots but not unique, CAL and Coex had the same thing.

I think if you are ticked off about it you should blame your union and APA, not the flowbacks, they are just exercising a contractual provision.

 

[aa73]

I highly doubt all furloughees flow back, in fact the # I've been told was about half. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty situation for the Eagle pilots but not unique, CAL and Coex had the same thing.

I think if you are ticked off about it you should blame your union and APA, not the flowbacks, they are just exercising a contractual provision.

The "Censored" word of the day is $hitty...

Sorry 'bout that...

 

[satpak77]

good luck to AA guys

good luck to everyone, my former CFI when I got my private went to AA in 1994-ish. I have had sporadic contact with him, but I believe he is furloughed also.

Another good college buddy, age 33, college degree, yadda yadda, a SF-340 Captain at Eagle, is likely a career Saab driver for a long time, unless he gets hired out of the AA system.

Interestingly, he told me that back in the day, when American WAS hiring, it was faster to get hired by AA via "applying from the outside" than by flowthru. Some senior Eagle Capts who flowed thru sometimes met Eagle FO's who also were recently hired by the "external hire" method......don't know if he was BS-ing me over some beers, who knows

 

[aa73]

good luck to everyone, my former CFI when I got my private went to AA in 1994-ish. I have had sporadic contact with him, but I believe he is furloughed also.

Another good college buddy, age 33, college degree, yadda yadda, a SF-340 Captain at Eagle, is likely a career Saab driver for a long time, unless he gets hired out of the AA system.

Interestingly, he told me that back in the day, when American WAS hiring, it was faster to get hired by AA via "applying from the outside" than by flowthru. Some senior Eagle Capts who flowed thru sometimes met Eagle FO's who also were recently hired by the "external hire" method......don't know if he was BS-ing me over some beers, who knows

Your buddy would have gotten hired around '93 and then immediately furloughed for about 4 years. AA stopped hiring in '93 and resumed in '98.

Hiring on with Eagle was always the long way to AA. Rumor was, AMR didn't want to absorb training costs associated with hiring on with two AMR companies. And if one decided to wait for the "slow-through" it was about 10-15 years. The flowthroughs in my '00 new hire class were hired at Eagle in '86.

Look for an additional, if several, more round of furloughs this year. The end is nowhere in sight. Our union is a joke. Fares keep coming down, routes keep getting transferred to regionals, incidents keep happening... And I say this optimistically.

 

[jetexas]

I highly doubt all furloughees flow back, in fact the # I've been told was about half. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty situation for the Eagle pilots but not unique, CAL and Coex had the same thing.

I think if you are ticked off about it you should blame your union and APA, not the flowbacks, they are just exercising a contractual provision.

CAL and COex had a 'similar' thing, not the same. The flowthrough actually worked for Coex. They got something in the order of several hundred flowed through to CAL (I think around 950?). Eagle got 124 flowed through while AA brought in 5000 pilots.
AA is forecast to have 600+ flowback. Not nearly as equitable nor fair as the CAL/Coex agreement. Definitely a ****ty deal for us, considering current AE Captains will be 7 and 8 year FO's for those flowing back and current FO's are now "trapped under ice".

Your second point is correct. No need to fire at the wrong target.

 

[BFC Lone Wolf]

You can also blame the flowbacks for coming to Eagle and working for Eagle wages. I remember when APA said they would not fly for Eagle wages. Well guess what they are and it is showing the arbitrators that APA pilots will work for cheap. The trend is being set by AMR to have APA pilots fly for Eagle wages. Trends are hard to reverse.

 

[mach zero]

It is indeed sickening seeing what is happening at AA as well as most legacy airlines. Seeing AA pilots continue to be furloughed three and a half years after 9/11 is hard to believe. What is even worse is that while AA continues to furlough, Trans States, Chautaqua and Eagle continue to hire 21 year old kids to do basically the same thing on the same routes for just a fraction of the pay that the AA pilots enjoyed. What is even harder to fathom is that these lousy "feeder airlines" still have no difficulty finding 21 year old kids that are not only willing, but eager to fly a regional jet for $18,000 a year. Sorry to be so negative, but I can't help but feel bitter about what has happened and what is still happening at AA as well as the other legacy airlines.

Yes sir it's all those civilian background 21 year old Eaglets who are ruining AA. I guess the 40 something ex-military fighter now Eagle pilot I just met hadn't heard that Eagle was for 21 year olds only.