AA and age 60

[AV8OR]

Please...no flaming.

I heard a rumor, that APA or AMR, was keepng the manadatory retirement age at 60 against the grain of the FAA ruling. Any truth to this at all?

Thanks....

 

[ferlo]

The contract doesn't have to change just because the Law did. Alaska, for now at least, is remaining 60 as well.

 

[AA717driver]

Not true at all. Several have stayed beyond 60 so far.

A lot of "Natives" have gone because they locked into a high share value several months ago and would lose money by staying.

Most TWA guys are staying for the opposite reason. TC

 

[VMA214]

Retirement wise though we are still made whole at 60...

 

[Ualexpress]

.......

 

[AV8OR]

"The contract doesn't have to change just because the Law did. Alaska, for now at least, is remaining 60 as well"

Alaska guys/girls, is that true?

 

[AKMD80GUY]

My man Ferlo said it right. Infact very few are staying and those that are staying are MD-80 guys who will walk away after the jet goes away. With the A plan in tact and the formula for the lump sum changing ( in the companies favor ) Guys know they start losing money. It's been 3 years since Kasher and now you start running up against the best five of your last ten years. I also know of a handfull of guys that are all going to walk at the same time. 30 days notice is all you need. It's gonna be a long summer.

 

[flyinboxes]

So, they can stay if they want at AMR and Alaska past 60?

 

[GIII Instructor]

YES...latest number I heard is 45% staying

 

[Jet_Driver]

Please...no flaming.

I heard a rumor, that APA or AMR, was keepng the manadatory retirement age at 60 against the grain of the FAA ruling. Any truth to this at all?

Thanks....

Sorry to sound like a smart @ss, but the FAA didn't have a "ruling" on the matter. Congress Passed it and the President signed it into US Law. So, if AMR or Alaska wants to keep that in their contract, that is up to them. However, that doesn't change the fact that it is now illegal in the U.S.A. to make an airline pilot quit under age 65.

I am a junior F/O and I've heard a lot of other junior F/Os whining about this. Waaaa, let them stay and have their half million extra income and work a few more years to pay off lingering debts. When we are 60 years old, we can stay around and make an extra million in 2038 dollars. It all comes around. It's called delayed gratification. We're not too familiar with this term in the US. Get used to the idea.

 

[pipe]

OR..............................

I could upgrade now, earn 50,000/yr more, and at 8% in 25 yrs it will be worth 1.71 million. I would be 60, retired,
AND WOULDN"T HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you not get that?

PIPE

 

[V-1]

OR..............................

I could upgrade now, earn 50,000/yr more, and at 8% in 25 yrs it will be worth 1.71 million. I would be 60, retired,
AND WOULDN"T HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you not get that?

PIPE

Because pilots don't have to be good at math.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Sorry to sound like a smart @ss, but the FAA didn't have a "ruling" on the matter. Congress Passed it and the President signed it into US Law. So, if AMR or Alaska wants to keep that in their contract, that is up to them. However, that doesn't change the fact that it is now illegal in the U.S.A. to make an airline pilot quit under age 65.

I am a junior F/O and I've heard a lot of other junior F/Os whining about this. Waaaa, let them stay and have their half million extra income and work a few more years to pay off lingering debts. When we are 60 years old, we can stay around and make an extra million in 2038 dollars. It all comes around. It's called delayed gratification. We're not too familiar with this term in the US. Get used to the idea.

You are a real idiot.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

I am a junior F/O and I've heard a lot of other junior F/Os whining about this. Waaaa, let them stay and have their half million extra income and work a few more years to pay off lingering debts. When we are 60 years old, we can stay around and make an extra million in 2038 dollars. It all comes around. It's called delayed gratification. We're not too familiar with this term in the US. Get used to the idea.

are you for real? anyone describing himself as "DFW Jet Jocky" should probably expect to be asked that. But congrats on your "CFI, CFII, MEI, COM, INST, MULTI, AGI." Very impressive.

you will one day dread the prospect of being forced to work for five years longer than you should have to, due solely to another group's selfishness.

BTW, an "extra million in 2038 dollars" won't be enough to pay for a two bedroom shack in the slum...good luck.

 

[MJ42]

are you for real? anyone describing himself as "DFW Jet Jocky" should probably expect to be asked that. But congrats on your "CFI, CFII, MEI, COM, INST, MULTI, AGI." Very impressive.

you will one day dread the prospect of being forced to work for five years longer than you should have to, due solely to another group's selfishness.

BTW, an "extra million in 2038 dollars" won't be enough to pay for a two bedroom shack in the slum...good luck.

Come on now, give the guy a break. Once he "flows through" to AA his life will be set.:erm:

 

[glasspilot1]

OR..............................

I could upgrade now, earn 50,000/yr more, and at 8% in 25 yrs it will be worth 1.71 million. I would be 60, retired,
AND WOULDN"T HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you not get that?

PIPE

I agree Pipe. I call the recent age change "Work till you die." In fact I'm an example of the extreme on the other end. I turned 50 last May and retired early. Over this freaking rat race!

 

[instructordude]

OR..............................

I could upgrade now, earn 50,000/yr more, and at 8% in 25 yrs it will be worth 1.71 million. I would be 60, retired,
AND WOULDN"T HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you not get that?

PIPE

You don't have to work till 65 but it IS GOOD THAT YOU AND I HAVE THAT OPTION.

You never know what is going to happen so consider the age change a bit of insurance. Also, most upgrades occur due to a companies growth. My advice is to get into a growing company.

Also, with the change we are keeping some of our most seasoned veterans,. Bottom line, Experience Counts and our airlines and customers are safer!

Rant off

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I prefer to call it.....

......"The Fly 'til you Die Program"

quote=glasspilot1;1550175]I agree Pipe. I call the recent age change "Work till you die." In fact I'm an example of the extreme on the other end. I turned 50 last May and retired early. Over this freaking rat race![/quote]

 

[FO 4 Life]

Also, with the change we are keeping some of our most seasoned veterans,. Bottom line, Experience Counts and our airlines and customers are safer!

That is a wasted argument. How do you think they got that experience? Planes should have been falling out of the sky ever since age 60 was enacted following that train.

 

[Big Slick]

Is instructordude for real? I wonder if he is like the guy who posts as Frank Lorenzo - he is just here to add flame. Is it possible for him to be that clueless?

"Thanks to age 65, I am now a career FO"
Think of it as an insurance policy!

"My company is parking airplanes"
My advice is to get into a growing company!

The instructordudes of today will be the bitter and disillusioned airline pilots of tomorrow. At some point his blind, trusting optimism has got to wear off. The regionals prey on clueless, overly optimistic and gullible people like him who are fixated on their "dream airline job."

"Insurance policy" Classic.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

Is instructordude for real? Is it possible for him to be that clueless?

"Thanks to age 65, I am now a career FO"
Think of it as an insurance policy!

"My company is parking airplanes"
My advice is to get into a growing company!

The instructordudes of today will be the bitter and disillusioned airline pilots of tomorrow. At some point his blind, trusting optimism has got to wear off. The regionals prey on clueless, overly optimistic and gullible people like him who are fixated on their "dream airline job."

"Insurance policy" Classic.

Big Slick,

You have the big picture. Its obvious instructordude has no grasp of compounding interest (or in our case the loss of it). He needs to pick up and read a book of economics and finance to figure out what just happened to him. Putting off an upgrade for 3-5 years will cost all those not in the highest paying seats untold sums of money and quality of life issues. The short-term financial hit alone is a killer.

Yeah, we can work until 65, but for most of us, we will simply be earning back the money we lost in the first place. Another question is how long will one’s body hold up especially after all the productivity gives the last few years and with everyone now flying 90 hours plus to keep up their standard of living. This is such as thing as “burnout.”

The next big question now is “how long will they stay.”

APA’s BOD is now seriously looking to address our stagnation problem compounded by Age 65 and to create some relief for our long term stagnated FO’s. AA has among the longest time to upgrade running at around 16 years right now.

Our industry is bracing for a challenging environment ahead. Most companies are either cutting back on growth or outright downsizing. Good luck in finding an airline that will be expanding like gang busters over the next couple of years. Even Southwest is curtailing their growth.

Age 65 couldn’t have come at a worst time for most of us.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[AC560]

OR..............................

I could upgrade now, earn 50,000/yr more, and at 8% in 25 yrs it will be worth 1.71 million. I would be 60, retired,
AND WOULDN"T HAVE TO WORK FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!

OR........

You could get laid off in six months and be on the street with no employment for 6 months. Then to feed your family because you have tapped all your savings that was earning 8% you take a job elsewhere. You finally get called back after 4yrs but your wages were slashed and your pensions were flushed.

Thank God for cat food, retiring at 60, and social security though.

 

[Jimmy C. Corn]

Thank God for cat food, retiring at 60, and social security though.

hopefully cat food will still be left when most of us retire.

 

[BoilerUP]

If you want to make sure your kids don't make the same "mistake" you did you don't have to steer them away from aviation - you just have to teach them the concept of time/value of money.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Soyent green, it's the future....

hopefully cat food will still be left when most of us retire.

.....parts is parts!!!

 

[VW Pilot]

My first instructor was a furloughed typer for AA at age 59, taught MD-83, 777-200. 6 months later they called him back, now teaching 737-800 ground school and Level D sim. Says he's staying to 65...Dunno if there is a difference between Type rating instructors and The pilots...

 

[JohnQ]

Thank God for cat food...

Typical AARP Bolshevik propaganda. Of all the BS that is spouted by the narcissistic old-people lobby, this is the most humorous.

I love how the wealthiest segment of society manages to keep stealing from the hard-working, non-social-security drawing segments (who have mortgages to pay and families to raise) so they can keep going on their two to three cruises a year. And of course if you dare say that maybe they shouldn't be able to tap Social Security benefits far beyond what they ever put in (even adjusted for inflation) then you by default "want old ladies to sit in the dark eating cat food."

 

[pipe]

OR........

You could get laid off in six months and be on the street with no employment for 6 months. Then to feed your family because you have tapped all your savings that was earning 8% you take a job elsewhere. You finally get called back after 4yrs but your wages were slashed and your pensions were flushed.

Thank God for cat food, retiring at 60, and social security though.

Furlough would be a lot less likely if the seniority list hadn't stopped dead in it's tracks now, wouldn't it?

PIPE

 

[AC560]

Furlough would be a lot less likely if the seniority list hadn't stopped dead in it's tracks now, wouldn't it?

I would think it decreases the chances of furlough there is a financial benefit to the airlines to be able to keep pilots for another 5yrs which while it will slow hiring/promotions it should in theory reduce furlough's.

 

[spacecadet1]

I would think it decreases the chances of furlough there is a financial benefit to the airlines to be able to keep pilots for another 5yrs which while it will slow hiring/promotions it should in theory reduce furlough's.

Let me guess, you got your education at Faber college?