AA/AE one list

[Publishers]

Not going ot happen

If anything, the recent events indicate that the union leadership realized the extent that AA would go to in not accepting any concept towards one list.

They, AA, demonstrated that they would live by the letter of the contract but that maybe that contract was not as good as some thought. They did not try FM but kept making the necessary changes.

 

[Furlough Boy]

As a furloughed AE pilot, I have to say that the idea of an AA/AE single list is pretty terrifying. At AE, we have already experienced a bad deal with the "flow through." I have very little confidence that anything good would come out of one list for Eagle pilots. I just see the possibility of adding about 5 years to my furlough for the slim chance of one day getting on with a major that could easily go bankrupt. Sorry to be so negative, but I am just hoping that the pilots at AE will see the real dangers of agreeing to any form of a single list. We will get shafted again.

 

[jetexas]

it will be a very long time, if ever, before AA is the size it was before 9/11. That being said, a 'staple' to the bottom of the list at AA could be a career ender for the Eagle pilot.
All furloughs have some type of time constraint on them and Eagle could very easily find itself with furloughees being voided out of AMR with a 5 year or so furlough.
Unless Eagle were to get DOH, at least for furlough protection, I for one would be totally against a merge. We've already taken it in the shorts too much already.

 

[eaglefly]

Simple economics will dictate that AMR cannot accept a scenario wherby AA pilots (including furloughees) would "move in and bump an equivilent number of Eagle pilots". The costs would be staggering.

APA seeks "one list" as the ultimate goal, not necessarily the end result though. What they could get is AA furloughees to staff NEW deliveries (or a portion therof) in exchange for a relaxation of scope and ASM. Eventually with all the AA furloughees back, they could start hiring which would re-start the flow-through.



We'll have a better idea by Christmas which way the wind is blowing.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

AE/AA list, SCOPE, additional RJs

AMR has been trying to get around or deal with SCOPE issues in many ways. The sale/non-sale of my former employer Executive Airlines, and the use of the AMERICAN CONNECTION and the diversion of AE RJs to the CONNECTION. AMR is and has been at the ceiling of SCOPE and has been trying to poke a few holes in it or find a solution to it, as far as expansion goes for some time now.

There has been talk of an RJ base in RDU (a former AA base) and AA would like to add more RJs to match what the competion is doing. With one seniority list, most SCOPE issues could be resolved, AMR could buy more RJs of various sizes. This could bring back the furloughed AA and AE pilots to staff the equipment and maybe even some hiring.

One list could give AMR the flexibility to make better business decisions and employ more pilots. It would give the pilots a stronger position for bargaining in the future.

Here are a few examples of some things that might have been possible if there were one list:

The B717 might have made more sense to keep around after the TWA merger since it was up and running and doing well. Maybe even a smaller and a bigger version would have made sense to replace the MD80 and fill the void that the CRJ700?(stretch RJ) is being considered for.

Low cost carrier: DAL is looking to try the low cost carrier again. TWA could have meet that requirement for AA. It had some impressive performance numbers, on time, etc. As a former TWA pilot, I am not saying I would want to fly the same equipment for less pay, but most of the majors have tried the carrier within a carrier and TWA LLC could have been that solution for AMR. Or with one list, AMR could set up such an operation and the pilots could decide via seniority where they would like to fly.

As pilots we are always concerned about our own "rice-bowl" and who does the flying. There were 4 seperate Eagles when I flew there and AMR would shrink one and grow another at contract time or any other time they wanted to divide and conquer the pilot groups. Now that there is one Eagle list, you don't here the same grumblings about who is doing the flying out of MIA, DFW ORD, ETC. (Put your time table down,....ETC is not a hub!!!)

I am not advocating any of this, I am just saying that one list could give AMR more flexibility and the ability to make better business decisions. One list might add some pilot solidarity for a better contract and quality of life. One list could bring the total number of aircraft and pilots to a higher level.

It would be sticky putting it all together, but if it benefitted AMR and ALL the pilots that fly for AMR (AA, TWA LLC, and AE), it might be worth considering.

However, with AMR, APA, and ALPA in the mix, the forecast call for pain!

 

[Beantown]

I always thought that one of the main problems with "one" list at any major/regional airline was the military factor. That is the 10 year F16/C-130 pilot that would normally go into a MD80 or 737 at Amr. would now have to go into a Saab 340 or Erj. With these regional aircraft would come lower pay and less workrules. Amr. has a large % of pilots that are former military and I doubt they will ever allow a rule change that will hurt there friends and brothers. Just a thought. What do you think? -Bean

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Date of hire and A/C assignment

Bean:

Yes that is always a factor, however date of hire and aircraft assignment are two different things. At a major some are assigned to F/E or get a choice at an F/O position.

Example at AA some where hired as F/E or F/O to the F100, MD80 and even B767. It all depends on the needs of the company at date of hire after bid runs for line pilots, etc. At AE in 1994, I was hired to the SD3-60, while others after me were assigned the ATR.

In addition, AE is going to an all jet fleet in the future and it may not be as much of a factor with state-of-the-art equipment in the form of an RJ. CAL, in my opinion, had a better flow through. CAL still hired to mainline and the Express, but DOH dictates bid seniority. Some RJ Captains would remain in the RJ after their flow through date arrived and were paid an override. Each person uses their seniority in different ways, it is hard to quantify. The point being, there are mechanisms and ways of dealing with these issues.

RJ pay would most likely go up, especially for Captains that remain in seat, even if they could take an F/O position on the mainline. Furloughed F/Os would most likely take a pay cut to come back to an RJ, but may be able to make Captain sooner as more RJs are added to replace the older narrowbodies. I don't necessarily like this, just sharing some possibilities.

The point of one list would give the company greater flexibiliy in it's decisions to deploy and change aircraft on routes. In return, the pilot work rules and pay should improve for the pilots on smaller aircraft, but the mission of the RJ and a long-range widebody are different, so some things won't change.

Much has change from 10 years ago, new ideas and ways of doing business are bound to come into play.

Jeff

 

[Publishers]

Not going ot happen

Not Happening

"One list could give AMR the flexibility to make better business decisions and employ more pilots. It would give the pilots a stronger position for bargaining in the future"

Here is the kind of statement that reflects the fact that the issue is not understood by pilots at all.

The fact is that:

One list diminishes the flexibility of AMR to do things--like sell Eagle.

This is a business that employs pilots not one which exists to employ pilots --why would they see that to employ more is some great reason to do one list.

It would give pilots a stronger postion for bargaining. Wow, why would AMR not want to jump on that idea.

 

[3HOLER]

Publishers, as usual you are blabbing like an idiot again. Why do you think you have such a great understanding of how this process works and will work? I see that you have a ton of experience flying in this industry. If you don't know what your talking about, you should just be quiet because you look stupid every time you post something. And have a nice day.

 

[justincase]

Any word on more recalls coming at Eagle? Thanks