A National Regional pilots Union

[jukebox]

Skywest pilots are currently trying to certify their in house union known as SAPA. The hope is that it could eventually lead to a possible National regional union. What are the thoughts from ASA, COMAIR, Air Wisky, ACA, pilots about such a merger of regional pilots.

 

[The Penguin]

The money we could generate from dues would be pale in comparison to Alpa. What would it accomplish? Would it be just to fight Alpa on everything? If thats the case, then lets just write the lawyers a check right now.

 

[ATRCA]

Listen, ALPA has problems, particularly when it comes to equal representation but this is an absurd idea.

You could never generate the funds needed to provide what ALPA provides. Not to mention there would be a long and arduous struggle to gain the respenct ALPA has gained in its 70+ yrs history. Bad idea. I personally would have no interest in joining and I doubt many of my CoEx co-workers would opt for it either.

 

[Beechnut]

I agree. ALPA has problems, but they also supported our strike efforts and helped us get a good regional contract. I would not dump them for a start-up union.

Fix the problem, don't abandon it.


S.

 

[Bluto]

Aren't ALPA's big money-makers kind of the problem for the regionals? It seems to me that when two companies have goals that are in opposition to one another, they shouldn't be represented by the same organization. Who will ALPA side with? The regional? With their relatively small dues? Or the major? I personally have had no real problems with ALPA, but many regional pilots feel that ALPA doesn't represent their interests.

 

[PDTGIMP]

ALPA IS THE WORST!

I've been a loyal servant of my ALPA MEC, and watched as "my" union screwed us, Piedmont, and our W.O. partners at ALG. (PSA already had a limp contract so they don't count-although they are a good bunch of guys and equally screwed by J4J!) J4J, boy that sure was a terrific idea-I mean replacing me and my fellow pilots to give jobs to the higher paid mainline freaks-logic at it best.

Then there's the poor boys at CCAIR. Screwed by Mesa, they reach a TA, the pilots vote FOR it, and ALPA National, of course, wouldn't sign it. There going to hit the street Nov. 4th and we're going to pick up there flying-sorry guys!

Then look at ASA/Comair with scope resets, and yes even ACA is going to grow into problems-in fact the CEO of ACA wrote an op ed piece in Pro Pilot urging for scope relief and provided a very good reasoning for not only allowing more RJ's-BUT demonstrated how more RJ's can allow for more growth on the mainline level.

BUT ALPA, wonderful ALPA hates RJ and regional pilots (maybe it's time for new leadership)! Just think of all the lawsuits against our union by our memebers-that's NOT good! Oh yeah, POTOMAC AIR-alter ego, we sue, ALPA likes it now 'cause they're going to be an ALPA carrier-mo' money, mo' money-we can't sue now-THX ALPA.

In there defense, ALPA is good for improving work rules-but they should butt out of the political issues cause all they do is screw the lower paid regional pilots-and protect the higher paid "heavy" drivers. It reminds me of the old A-scale, B-scale employed by AMR-speaking of AMR look no further than the Eagle drivers-are they getting screwed or what!

Oh well, I'm going to learn how to drive a truck.

 

[EMB120FO]

I think a regional airline union would be the best thing to happen to regionals since the RJ. The amount of money that a regional union could generate would not even matter if all the airlines were onboard. ALPA is always going to side with the major. They are the ones with the bigger paychecks, hence more $$$ for ALPA. Any regional represented by ALPA also deals with "Scope," which is also because of ALPA. The only reasons a union even exists...is that...it's a union. Everyone is united, therefore managers have no choice when all the employees are focused on change. The problem with Eagle is that although they are APA, they are under one umbrella...AMR ='s ALPA. They might as well be paying ALPA union dues instead. My friends at SkyWest love their job, get paid well, and have some of the best working conditions in the industry. They also haven't furloughed a single pilot, and are about to start hiring again. Why....no union....no ALPA. My point of this is that we at regionals might be here for a while, therefore we need to look after our best interests, just like the majors do. We need to stick together, and look at new ways of doing things. Fly safe.

 

[MetroSheriff]

The problem with Eagle is that although they are APA, they are under one umbrella...AMR ='s ALPA. They might as well be paying ALPA union dues instead.

I think you have it backwards kemosabee. Eagle is ALPA, mainline is APA.

 

[sleepy]

In the short term RALPA would not have the financial resources or political power that ALPA enjoyes. In the long term RALPA could develope into a powerful force and a better representative of regional pilots than ALPA couldl ever be. It is clear to me that regional pilots will always be second class at ALPA.

ALPA likes to represent regional pilots because it is the most effective way to control us.

There are other options out there; TWU and Teamsters. You don't necessarily have to start from scratch with a new union.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Hey emb120fo, how come Comair, ASA and ACA are all hiring, and all have a union called ALPA? You say Skywest MIGHT start hiring again, and it's because they have no union? You think a separate "regional" union is a great idea, care to tell us why?

We are part of ALPA because it's the airline pilots' union. It's not perfect, but it's the best around for a lot of reasons allready mentioned. I suppose a "regional" union would give us more say in our own union, but it wouldn't stop our big brothers from hurting us. In fact, it would make it easier for them. So, we would go from having a little bit of say in what they do, to having no say. Why do you guys see this as a benefit? We should be in the same union the big boys are in because we are all airline pilots. Starting a "regional" union would only serve to separate us more, and keep everything unequal. This is a really bad idea.

Why don't you guys start helping with the solution, instead of trying to make more problems for all of us?

 

[Pileit]

The money we could generate from dues would be pale in comparison to Alpa. What would it accomplish? Would it be just to fight Alpa on everything? If thats the case, then lets just write the lawyers a check right now.

Money and power are at the root of this problem, but maybe not in the way you think. Sure Alpa has deep pockets, and it uses those pockets to lure the regional pilot to march in step. But the relationship is more like that of the heroine dealer to the junkie. Junkie gets some occasional "stuff" but the price is an enslaved life.

A regional union is a very interesting idea. I may not be the answer, but is definitely worthy of discussion.

 

[miller22]

A regional airline union would mean ALPA could run rampant with SCOPE. At least now there's a conflict of interest, which gives us some power. I think Regional Airlines are a scourge in ALPA's eyes and they'd love to dump us, and if we do that for them, we lose any power over the most important issue...scope.

 

[Slick]

Are you suggesting that ALPA hasn't run rampant with scope already??!!??
If a RALPA was formed, it seems to me that we wouldn't be talking about a conflict of interest, but rather a clear anti-trust violation, (a.k.a. "scope clause"), entered into by the parties to the contract, (i.e. mainline and mainline pilots), And that anti-trust violation would have long ago rendered the scope portion of the contract void and unenforceable.
Of couse, I'm not a lawyer. I just play one on t.v.

 

[wafu39]

You guys don't seem to get the big picture!

Let me say that I flew 9 years with 2 regionals before being lucky enough to be hired by a major, so I know where you're coming from, but you have to keep things in perspective.

I guarantee that almost every regional pilot out there wants to eventually get on with a major airline. The question is WHY?

For the money, schedule and retirment right?

Well who do you think negotiated all these great things, and would we have them without ALPA - ABSOLUTELY NOT!

If the majors keep giving flying to the regionals there will be less of these jobs available, so don't you think it's better to protect these jobs, for everyone's long term career prospects.

I don't want to sound like I'm anti RJ or get into a scope argument, I think all regional flying should be in jets and the pilots should be well paid to do it.

The point is that hopefully in the future you will fly for a major and reap the benefits of ALPA membership.

I am currently on furlough and even though ALPA may be far from perfect, at least you have contract rules and protections to work with, unlike the pt135 crap that I am dealing with right now!

You really don't know how lucky you are to be at an ALPA regional and you have to be able to think of your whole career, not just the next few years.

Keep the faith!

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
Starting a "regional airline" pilots union is only going to perpetuate the same us vs. them mentality that has brought the industry to where it is today.
Even if the events of 9-11 never occured the airline industry, like the tech stocks was overvalued in labor contracts, capacity and infrastructure. The airline industry is being forced to re-think an entire paradigm in a very short period of time. The adjustment is going to be quite painful and in my personal opinion the worst is still looming on the horizon.
The world, our nation and our outlook for our future has changed in a very rapid amount of time. Whether we like it or not things will never be the same again. Keeping this thought in mind, it is going to take some leadership on the part of both management and the rank and file to steer the industry through the difficult times. Unfortunately, I have my reservations about this being a reality and not pure fantasy. I honestly don't know if we've learned very much in the past year, because of the continuous bickering amongst ourselves that ultimately will lead nowhere.
What is even more distressing to me is how many times has an individual spoken of how much they enjoy flying? or what a privilege it is to live in a country that allows the opportunity to do so? It appears that many of us feel like we are "owed" something or that because the guys over in another company are getting this, so it's just not fair! Pretty freaking sad if you ask me...
for those of you that want to flame me for saying so go right ahead...I served my country for 20 years as a flight crewmember, and flown GA for over 20 years and flying has and never will be something I do for the "lifestyle". The next time you look with disdain on another pilot in uniform from a rival company, union or whatever reason. Remember that neither of you were in uniform on your first solo. Just someone enjoying the moment...

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

"Football is my life, but only when it's pure and good" paraphrased from the movie "Varisty Blues" Think about that the next time your airplane bursts through the clouds into a brilliant sunlit, blue sky...