A Hero Disgraced

[RJP]

Of course, any time he serves won't be behind bars, but will instead be behind the fences of a white-collar "Club Med" facility like the one at Eglin.

Send him to Folsom State Prison.

He should get the opportunity to go to a "Federal Pound-Him-In-The-A$$-Prison."

 

[AdlerDriver]

GV,

Randy "The Crook" Cunningham never commanded Fighter Weapons School. He did command VF-126, an adversary squadron...but never TopGun.

http://www.skyhawk.org/3E/va126/va126.htm#COS

I agree with your post. I was never as impressed with Cunnignham as much as he was. When flying against him out of Miramar, the standard joke was to call "Check Gas!" every 15-seconds in the engagement...just to make sure he wasn't losing track, again!

He was a good driver, though.

OR,
You're the second person to alluded to him running out of gas. Were you implying there might be some truth to him doing so on the 3 Mig kill mission? Just curious. I had always enjoyed the end of the story....dodging 18 SAMs (...well, 17) and then barrel rolling out to sea with no hydraulics after killing 3 Migs. I'd never considered it to be anything other than a great display of flying. Now you (and Duke, of course) have got me wondering.
What a shame.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Sad


After his time, and it sounds like he should do some, he's going to end up selling $5 autographs at car shows.

He's also going to find out that all his "buddies" that were giving him free transcon Gulfstream rides and high end golf dues never gave a chit what he did in the first place. They'll consider him a leper, not for moral reasons, just because he'll be useless to them.

I hope he treated his real buddies well in the last few years.

 

[f9driver]

Running out of gas

Cunningham may be a crook and an egomaniac but it is a bald faced "cheap shot" about running out of gas. He was smoking and on fire and his hydraulics were shot. When you run out of gas in an F4 or any other Navy jet you do not lose hydraulics. The F4, for instance, has a RAT or ram air turbine. Without damage he would simply have glided to minimum altitude and ejected. There would have been no need for the rolling...only would have lost him a lot of altitude.

 

[Occam's Razor]

You're the second person to alluded to him running out of gas. Were you implying there might be some truth to him doing so on the 3 Mig kill mission? Just curious. I had always enjoyed the end of the story....dodging 18 SAMs (...well, 17) and then barrel rolling out to sea with no hydraulics after killing 3 Migs. I'd never considered it to be anything other than a great display of flying. Now you (and Duke, of course) have got me wondering.
What a shame.

I have about 1,500 hours it the F-4. I know what it burns per minute in a dogfight. I know how much fuel it carries. I've heard his de-brief on the mission (load-out, fuel load, altitudes, engagement duration, distance from the ship, etc). I've got an autographed copy of his book.

I'm good enough at math to know what happened.

The unwritten rule was that we never try to dilute the impact of an amazing feat by another fighter pilot. He bagged three in one flight. No question. He had great hands and mastery of a difficult aircraft to fight with.

But the calculator doesn't lie.

A narrative that ends, "...and then we ran out of gas." is not the stuff of sky gods. The fact that one of his wingman (he only had 2 that day, instead of 3) trapped with 3.1 - without a 4-minute engagement with Col Toon - tends to support the theory.

Only "Duke" and "Irish" know for certain.

Whenever any of his peers would bust his chops at 'Hook or at the Miramar O'Club, Duke would hold up his hand with all 5 fingers spread out.

"Five"

So let me make it clear: I wasn't there and have no idea whether he ran out go-juice, ran out of go-juice and then got popped by a SAM...or if he just got popped by a SAM.

Still, there are enough of us with Phantom savvy who know a weak narrative when we hear one. Sam Flynn (another Phantom driver, and MiG killer) told a gathering of us, "If you run outta gas, make sure you've got 3 kills...or they'll hang yer a$$"

 

[scoreboard]

The man is dead to us.

His deeds live on...

Learn from them, good and bad.

 

[cheese]

Still, there are enough of us with Phantom savvy who know a weak narrative when we hear one. Sam Flynn (another Phantom driver, and MiG killer) told a gathering of us, "If you run outta gas, make sure you've got 3 kills...or they'll hang yer a$$"

CAPT Flynn, used to enjoy having him as a sim instructor at Oceana, always good for a great story or a quote (also meant less time in the sim!).

 

[Occam's Razor]

CAPT Flynn, used to enjoy having him as a sim instructor at Oceana, always good for a great story or a quote (also meant less time in the sim!).

I was at Kingsville with Sam Flynn, Bug Roach, and Norm McCoy (F-8 MiG killer). Between the 3 of them, the Club was a great place to hang out!

I don't think any one of them ever bought a beer. All they had to do was say, "I remember once...." and the rest of us would dislocate a knuckle trying to get our wallets out fast enough.

Great guys!

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

Old Greg "Pappy" Boyington said it best:

"Show me a Hero and I'll prove he is a Bum!"

 

[usmc33]

Maybe Duke can learn from ADM Boorda

 

[Deuce130]

Maybe Duke can learn from ADM Boorda

Prison time, yes. Suicide, no. Boorda's story is sad and regrettable. He was about to be the victim of a media assassination over what, in the big scheme of things, is not that big of a deal. Shameful and embarrasing to him and the Navy, certainly, but not criminal to the extent of taking your own life. Neither is accepting bribes. I hope your post is meant to be funny.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Maybe Duke can learn from ADM Boorda

Completely tasteless.

Admiral Boorda's case was tragic, of epic proportions. Please don't imply that it is better to take one's own life rather than face the consequences of legal transgressions -- nor for any other reason.

Duke may be guilty of crimes, but he is still a human being with a family.

 

[usmc33]

Deuce130, no, not meant to be funny, just fueling some thought. ADM Boorda shouldn't have done what he did with his life. My intent in writing is to induce input about honor from warriors.

 

[scarface]

I'm still coming to grips with the Cunningham debacle. At least he had the decency, if that's the proper word, to plead guilty but he dishonored himself and it appears it wasn't a one time only but a way of life. I think the Boorda comparison isn't in the same frame of reference. I believe Boorda could've argued the V device away and not been weasel wording.
I don't go with the Boyington quote, I've known quite a few people whom I regard as heroes and they're anything but a bum. I believe Cunningham's USAF contemporary, Gen. Ritchie, leads a quite honorable life.

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

more disgrace for Duke

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1667009&page=1

-LA

 

[414Flyer]

Prison time, yes. Suicide, no. Boorda's story is sad and regrettable. He was about to be the victim of a media assassination over what, in the big scheme of things, is not that big of a deal. Shameful and embarrasing to him and the Navy, certainly, but not criminal to the extent of taking your own life. Neither is accepting bribes. I hope your post is meant to be funny.

I recall this stemmed from Hackworth going after Boorda for an award that Hackworth said Boorda was not justified in having, while Boorda most likely was.

All the while, Hackworth had issues over some of his own awards.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

I recall this stemmed from Hackworth going after Boorda for an award that Hackworth said Boorda was not justified in having, while it Boorda most likely was.

All the while, Hackworth had issues over some of his own awards.

Boorda's awards were legit; very tragic that he ended up committing suicide.

 

[FL420]

I knew Cunningham casually and flew as his wingman once on an adversary mission. He had a reputation for being an okay guy who was slightly full of himself and certainly not the "sharpest knife in the drawer."

Whenever he would start getting to be too much to take guys would remind him that most of us shot down every MiG we ever saw while he let a whole bunch of them get away. A lot of guys wouldn't call him "Duke" on the ground since he gave himself that callsign and tried to assume the persona of the one and only.

He was a protégé of Rep. Duncan Hunter who helped him get the job at National University and later beat Rep. Jim Bates, a quite unlikeable guy. I wonder what role Hunter has had, if any, in all this.

Regardless, a sad day for Cunningham and his family, NavAir, the citizens of California and the nation.

 

[Occam's Razor]

A lot of guys wouldn't call him "Duke" on the ground since he gave himself that callsign and tried to assume the persona of the one and only.

We used to call him "Duke"...but our C.O. (who knew him from flight school) called him "Yank"...his original callsign. Cunningham used to get pissed at that, but they were both O-5's...so too bad!

Regardless, a sad day for Cunningham and his family, NavAir, the citizens of California and the nation.

I'm stunned that Wade, the scumbag contractor, could get 20-years...while Cunningham, the crook, can only get 10.

Ain't right.

 

[XShipRider]

He's kind of in that nowhere place that Pete Rose lives. He may have been a great pilot, but he is now an ordinary criminal. Not much to be proud of there.

... ditto OJ.