9E attrition

[PBRstreetgang]

Look at who you work for, a bottom tier regional in BK, if you really think you will see one penny of that money, think again and read this over again and again. Sweet Jeebus they brought Mother D in for the sales pitch, my bet is at best bet, a few low paid F/Os will get some cash, just to keep everybody's nose to the grindstone, then poof the Delta owned 900s will be transferred to the next bottom feeder.

 

[Indy319FA]

Ahhhhhh don't get mad. Im certainly not. I think think your replies are great. Im actually smiling as I type this almost laughing at ya. Im sorry you were forced to work at Colgan after you were hired at Pinnacle. Again great career choice. Two top notch carriers. I mis spoke about your 402 experience. Im glad u found a right seat King Air 90 job. You weren't forced to Colgan either. You choose to move to Colgan or not be employed. You made a choice. Kinda like a Yes or NO TA vote. Ahhhhhh theres my point. AGAIN. Your kinda like those guys that got hired at Trans States and were told GoJets is the only one doing classes now. You made the choice. Shoulda thought about it more and re evaluated. Then you would have more seniority at your CFI job and maybe get to be PIC on that King Air too.

Your totally right though. I'll Hang onto my cockamamie theories Only if you truly promise me that you'll keep making horrible career decisions Because I think GoJetsis hiring street Capts.

Actually I get a laugh out of you. I'm glad you've been fortunate that all of your decisions have worked out and you haven't had a major injury that caused a medical problem, or a bad management decision that you had no control over that might derail your plans. Not everyone is that lucky. If you'd been around long enough, you'd understand that luck and timing have more to do with career success in this business than anything else. Hope your good fortune continues.

I'm not the one trying to tell people how they should vote on this TA. You are. Having been in this situation before at Fly I, I understand that you or I don't have the first clue what these guys are going through when voting on whether to put their own company out of business. It sucks and is a tough call.

All I've tried to to is point out the holes in some of these scare tactics on the junior pilots. For the top third of guys that will stay in the left seat and have a prayer of the left seat in the next five years (and will get the Delta interview), its hard to see how one would vote against this. For the bottom 150 that will be furloughed this year I could see how they would vote for this as well because of the three months of severance. The key here is the 1300 or so that are looking at furlough either way in 2014, and the senior FOs that are taking the huge pay cut, and may not see the left seat for the forseable future. Those are the guys that have the hardest decision to make. My advice (having actually voted on something like this in the past) is to make a spreadsheet, look at the numbers, and see where you are. When I did that at Fly I, the numbers said no, and I voted no. If you can't make the economics work, then there just isn't any point.

What is wrong however, are the scare tactics being used by the company, people like you, and the senior guys on these junior pilots to get them to vote yes. It's wrong no matter how you cut it.

The non rev benefit will be useless, because unless Delta changes its past policies, as an inactive employee you will be reduced to the lowest priority. In other words, some snot nosed rampie hired yesterday will bump you off because he is an active employee. Good luck trying to get to Atlanta or Orlando on a weekend for those job fairs. Even if the TA is voted down, it will take Delta a year to a year and a half to park all the 200s. At minimum there will be some incentive offered to keep people showing up and running the aircraft on time, even in a windown. Comair got three months severance as long as they met performance numbers, and it is naiive to suggest Pinnacle pilots would not get the same thing in a windown. Finally there are plenty of jobs out there right now if you need to stay current. Corporate, 135, cargo, and several regionals are hiring.

Most of the guys I have talked to in this group that will be furloughed either way that have run the numbers tell me the spreadsheet says a no vote. Some say they will vote no, others aren't sure.

I think everybody needs to consider the facts and vote what they think will be in their best interests. Good luck to everyone, no matter how you vote. You're going to need it either way.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Actually I get a laugh out of you. I'm glad you've been fortunate that all of your decisions have worked out and you haven't had a major injury that caused a medical problem, or a bad management decision that you had no control over that might derail your plans. Not everyone is that lucky. If you'd been around long enough, you'd understand that luck and timing have more to do with career success in this business than anything else. Hope your good fortune continues.

I'm not the one trying to tell people how they should vote on this TA. You are. Having been in this situation before at Fly I, I understand that you or I don't have the first clue what these guys are going through when voting on whether to put their own company out of business. It sucks and is a tough call.

All I've tried to to is point out the holes in some of these scare tactics on the junior pilots. For the top third of guys that will stay in the left seat and have a prayer of the left seat in the next five years (and will get the Delta interview), its hard to see how one would vote against this. For the bottom 150 that will be furloughed this year I could see how they would vote for this as well because of the three months of severance. The key here is the 1300 or so that are looking at furlough either way in 2014, and the senior FOs that are taking the huge pay cut, and may not see the left seat for the forseable future. Those are the guys that have the hardest decision to make. My advice (having actually voted on something like this in the past) is to make a spreadsheet, look at the numbers, and see where you are. When I did that at Fly I, the numbers said no, and I voted no. If you can't make the economics work, then there just isn't any point.

What is wrong however, are the scare tactics being used by the company, people like you, and the senior guys on these junior pilots to get them to vote yes. It's wrong no matter how you cut it.

The non rev benefit will be useless, because unless Delta changes its past policies, as an inactive employee you will be reduced to the lowest priority. In other words, some snot nosed rampie hired yesterday will bump you off because he is an active employee. Good luck trying to get to Atlanta or Orlando on a weekend for those job fairs. Even if the TA is voted down, it will take Delta a year to a year and a half to park all the 200s. At minimum there will be some incentive offered to keep people showing up and running the aircraft on time, even in a windown. Comair got three months severance as long as they met performance numbers, and it is naiive to suggest Pinnacle pilots would not get the same thing in a windown. Finally there are plenty of jobs out there right now if you need to stay current. Corporate, 135, cargo, and several regionals are hiring.

Most of the guys I have talked to in this group that will be furloughed either way that have run the numbers tell me the spreadsheet says a no vote. Some say they will vote no, others aren't sure.

I think everybody needs to consider the facts and vote what they think will be in their best interests. Good luck to everyone, no matter how you vote. You're going to need it either way.

I dont disagree with you. Accept lets be honest. Fly I was F$&@?d from the start. That was a hail mary airline that was financially and geographically in term oil from the start.

No matter what is said on here i bet more than 95% of the pilot group votes. i bet it passes in the high 60 to 70 percent range. Im saying that comming from being furloughed, a merger and two bankruptcies so far and I get 30 plus years left. 1/3 yes. 1/3 no. 1/3 pussies will just say yes cause they cant decide. Most of us have already been there and done this. Same as you.

Your right. Im extremely fortunate to be where I am but sorry its not luck though. Its networking, careful decisions and moving at the right time. Its staying put and grinding it out so your in the right place to make the jump when you are ready and the opportunity arises.

Oh one last comment since. in my opinion Comair was an example by delta. 9e is next. Take it or leave it. DL already has their plan either way. Regardless of Yes or No someone will be next after them too. If you got 50 seaters your on deck to get F&$@d.

Cyyyyya

 

[Indy319FA]

I dont disagree with you. Accept lets be honest. Fly I was F$&@?d from the start. That was a hail mary airline that was financially and geographically in term oil from the start.

No matter what is said on here i bet more than 95% of the pilot group votes. i bet it passes in the high 60 to 70 percent range. Im saying that comming from being furloughed, a merger and two bankruptcies so far and I get 30 plus years left. 1/3 yes. 1/3 no. 1/3 pussies will just say yes cause they cant decide. Most of us have already been there and done this. Same as you.

Your right. Im extremely fortunate to be where I am but sorry its not luck though. Its networking, careful decisions and moving at the right time. Its staying put and grinding it out so your in the right place to make the jump when you are ready and the opportunity arises.

Oh one last comment since. in my opinion Comair was an example by delta. 9e is next. Take it or leave it. DL already has their plan either way. Regardless of Yes or No someone will be next after them too. If you got 50 seaters your on deck to get F&$@d.

Cyyyyya

I agree this will likely pass. I'm not making a prediction on percentage because there is one big wild card. The majority of voters are going to lose their job one way or the other in the next two years. Having worked in scheduling and SOC at Pinnacle under the old contract, I know how the company screwed a lot of these FOs that will be furloughed either way under this contract. I know the anger and bile that these guys feel towards the company that is very justified. How this wild card will affect the vote is difficult to quantify. It will not surprise me if this fails because a lot of these guys and gals decide they are getting furloughed and screwed either way, so decide to give the company one last FU before they leave.

As for the 50s, the remaining market for these aircraft will be very, very small as the market moves to the larger RJs with lower CASMS. That handwriting has been on the wall for a while.

 

[www.]

Hawk, that is a concern of mine too but if we can't get out right away I am hoping 9E survives until we can.

On another note Its been interesting to see that the only pilot that has told me he is a no vote was a really senior captain who would get 26000. His rational is that if we vote it down he can get full pay for another year and half but he only in his 50's. To me its seems that him getting that much money is like not taking a cut for a year and a half. Do you know if the union has a addressed what the court does if its voted down? It does not seem likely too me that we would get full pay to the last day.

IF the deal is voted down DAL will not pull the plug the next day. You guys do too much feed to do it overnight. The model would be like CMR.

 

[rtmcfi]

No matter which way the deal is voted DAL will not pull the plug the next day. You guys do too much feed to do it overnight. The model will be like CMR.

Fixed it for you