9E attrition

[gojo]

You would vote it down? The key word here is would, you are not in our situation. We have about 1200-1400 captains right now that all should vote this down on the verge a hiring cycle we have been waiting on for 10 years? Then we can start over and go to another regional or wait for a legacy while losing currency. You are telling our First Officers that will lose $5000 and furlough/health/pass benefits to vote it down to protect your regional jobs? Regionals are not careers, they are stepping stones that most of us have got stuck at because of circumstances starting with 911. You need to realize that with the demise of Comair you should not worry about others contract but about getting out of your regional before the gun is to your head. Don't you guys have around 100 RJs that also have a bulls eye on them?

If we vote this down and the 900's go to Gojets what will have been accomplished? Now there will be even more pressure on your wages. Our TA is still far superior to Gojets and Compass. Most 900 captains will still make $80000-$90000/year, get 3-4 weeks of vacation, have a min day of 4 hours, 11 days off min, junior man refusal rights, leg by leg protection, 50% 401K matching, affordable health care, etc. Most will get from $6000-$26000 as part of the bridge agreement which eases the pain some.

Gojets has 1-2 weeks of vacation, no rigs, min day, or cancellation pay. 10 days off for reserves, 1% 401k match. I don't even want to know what our decent $380/month family health care plan costs there. Wouldn't you rather have ASA comparing your next contract to our TA than Gojets? Delta has figured out what they are willing to pay for feed and they will get it at that number from us or someone else. There is going to be huge pressure on the regionals that is just starting and you either accept that and stay or you do what most of us are trying to do, which is get out.

Good post

 

[Flyer1015]

I'm gonna borrow this post from another forum thread.

"
Then why did Delta offer a severance to Comair pilots to stay during a shutdown. Why did Delta offer a severance to Regional Elite employees to stay while there jobs were shifted to DGS or outsourced?

If you are a junior FO and looking at furlough either way, it is naive to think the only way you will get a severance package is to vote for this TA. This is why the guys with the MBAs outduel the guys with the FAA certificates.

I've seen plenty of shutdowns in my time in this industry. Severances are always offered to keep key people in in place until they aren't needed any more. That is why DL is offering severance in this TA, and will offer severance if the TA is rejected and the company is wound down. If you think they are offering the severance out of the graciousness of their hearts, then you don't know this NWA management team running Delta. They are a blackhearted bunch that care about one thing. The spreadsheets and profit/loss.

Either way Delta will need to take care of passengers and does not want a disruption in feed. Either way severance will be offered to keep pilots in place until they aren't needed any more."

 

[mesaba13]

Yes, but will severance packages be offered to the first to get furloughed or just the senior captains that are left when they actually shut down? I bet the first Comair guys to get furloughed got nothing.

 

[ifly34]

Comair and Regional Elite were owned by Delta. If the TA is voted down I doubt Delta will own us. Why would they pay severance to employees of a company they don't own?

 

[mesaba13]

Good point! Delta definitely will not own us if we wind down.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Vote YES if you want to continue to fly while you look for a new job and pay your bills. Vote NO if you want to be on unemployment while looking for a flying job. Ask the Comair and Midwest guys what its like trying to find a job in a competitive market when you haven't touched the controls in 6 months or more. Sure some people get lucky and catch on somewhere but not most. Your kidding yourself if you think your going to change the industry by voting NO. This industry is F&$@?d. We all take our turn getting hammered at the table. Mesaba 2006, Northwest 2006, Delta 2006, Alaska 2005, US Air every year and American recently. Take a look around. Do the best with what you have and 9e doesn't have much. If you don't like it go sit with the FAs and talk about going back to school or get your head on straight and make the best of a bad situation and use 9e for what it is... A place to build time, gain experience and possibly make some money till you find that next job your really deserve. Use that carrier like the use you.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Vote YES if you want to continue to fly while you look for a new job and pay your bills. Vote NO if you want to be on unemployment while looking for a flying job. Ask the Comair and Midwest guys what its like trying to find a job in a competitive market when you haven't touched the controls in 6 months or more. Sure some people get lucky and catch on somewhere but not most. Your kidding yourself if you think your going to change the industry by voting NO. This industry is F&$@?d. We all take our turn getting hammered at the table. Mesaba 2006, Northwest 2006, Delta 2006, Alaska 2005, US Air every year and American recently. Take a look around. Do the best with what you have and 9e doesn't have much. If you don't like it go sit with the FAs and talk about going back to school or get your head on straight and make the best of a bad situation and use 9e for what it is... A place to build time, gain experience and possibly make some money till you find that next job your really deserve. Use that carrier like the use you.

Please don't speak for us Comair folk. You really don't know what you're saying.

Additionally. Yes. Voting no IS a step towards changing the industry. If pilots keep saying "no, I refuse to okay the lowering of the bar", eventually, management(s) WILL get the message. Just don't expect overnight change.

 

[Indy319FA]

Comair and Regional Elite were owned by Delta. If the TA is voted down I doubt Delta will own us. Why would they pay severance to employees of a company they don't own?

You got a friend that has an MBA or runs a business? Ask them why. Delta paid severance to those employees because they needed their services, it had noting to do with owning them. Until I finished my MBA, and worked in flight ops at Pinnacle for a while, I never really understood this business. Its all about cost and profit/loss.

Bottom line pass or not, Delta will need somebody to fly those 200s until they are parked, and will have to give incentives to get it done. If they don't then performance will suffer because people will leave or won't give a crap about their job. The severance gives financial incentive to show up and give a crap. Not because they own you, or want to be fair, but because without it they will not be able to serve customers and will lose money.

 

[Indy319FA]

Yes, but will severance packages be offered to the first to get furloughed or just the senior captains that are left when they actually shut down? I bet the first Comair guys to get furloughed got nothing.

Everyone there got some severance. Why don't you look and see how much severance furloughs get after 2013? Only 150 are expected. Most furloughs will occur in 2014 and benefits will consist of one month pay plus one month insurance.

 

[Indy319FA]

Vote YES if you want to continue to fly while you look for a new job and pay your bills. Vote NO if you want to be on unemployment while looking for a flying job. Ask the Comair and Midwest guys what its like trying to find a job in a competitive market when you haven't touched the controls in 6 months or more. Sure some people get lucky and catch on somewhere but not most. Your kidding yourself if you think your going to change the industry by voting NO. This industry is F&$@?d. We all take our turn getting hammered at the table. Mesaba 2006, Northwest 2006, Delta 2006, Alaska 2005, US Air every year and American recently. Take a look around. Do the best with what you have and 9e doesn't have much. If you don't like it go sit with the FAs and talk about going back to school or get your head on straight and make the best of a bad situation and use 9e for what it is... A place to build time, gain experience and possibly make some money till you find that next job your really deserve. Use that carrier like the use you.

Gonna raise the BS flag on this one. Spoken like someone who hasn't been looking for a job lately. After leaving Colgan last March, I had 6 job offers in 4 weeks (4 CFI, 2 135) and took a teaching job as a CFI at a University that was close to home for a while that paid pretty well. Decided I was sick of CFIing in November, put resumes out, interviewed at several places in December, and I'm in a class next month. Lots of jobs out there that pay decent. May not be the big legacy job, but still plenty of jobs that will pay the bills and keep you flying till you find the job you want.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Gonna raise the BS flag on this one. Spoken like someone who hasn't been looking for a job lately. After leaving Colgan last March, I had 6 job offers in 4 weeks (4 CFI, 2 135) and took a teaching job as a CFI at a University that was close to home for a while that paid pretty well. Decided I was sick of CFIing in November, put resumes out, interviewed at several places in December, and I'm in a class next month. Lots of jobs out there that pay decent. May not be the big legacy job, but still plenty of jobs that will pay the bills and keep you flying till you find the job you want.

Spoken like someone Colgan would hire and would even go there in the first place. You're raising the BS flag because you found 4 CFI jobs and 2 135 jobs after leaving Colgan? Really... I guess I assumed people intentionally tried to move forward in their careers or at least laterally. You keep churning out that dual and building the 402 time. I can feel Southwest and DL gets excited already.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Please don't speak for us Comair folk. You really don't know what you're saying.

Additionally. Yes. Voting no IS a step towards changing the industry. If pilots keep saying "no, I refuse to okay the lowering of the bar", eventually, management(s) WILL get the message. Just don't expect overnight change.

Please don't speak for us Comair folk. You really don't know what you're saying.



I wasn't speaking for the Comair people. No ones ones trying to take away or discount what they did to you guys. I'm simply stating what is going on. The airlines will find people to fill the seats. They will find people to take your jets and do your flying. Ask just about any first officer at 9e if he has the chance to go to Alligiant or Virgin and fly the 757 or 320 for 30% plus lower than most other 757 320 operators at major airlines would he go. Yep he would.

Virgin and Alligiant hasn't had any trouble filling their classes in the last year or two with qualified applicants.

Then when we go into contract negotiations they bring up Alligiant and Virgin and and use them against us in contract negotiation saying we should be taking pay cuts because we are overcompensated compared to these carriers.

Right now there's some kid at UND or Western Michigan licking his chops knowing that in the year he's going to be at a regional flying a CRJ, they'll find the pilots and this new time requirement rule, there so many loopholes in that for approved schools and approved training programs.

The way the regionals are currently structured these Legacy and major airlines can close one regional and open another and they don't lose a second of sleep about it.

All I am saying is that the system that is being created for the regionals and the major networks are truly dysfunctional. the system has to be changed. the way the structure is set up has to be changed and I don't think you're going to get that by closing one carrier down and allowing another to start and I'm sorry but you just don't have any control over whether Delta or United starts Up another GoJet or Freedom and operation.

 

[Indy319FA]

Spoken like someone Colgan would hire and would even go there in the first place. You're raising the BS flag because you found 4 CFI jobs and 2 135 jobs after leaving Colgan? Really... I guess I assumed people intentionally tried to move forward in their careers or at least laterally. You keep churning out that dual and building the 402 time. I can feel Southwest and DL gets excited already.

Actually I was hired for the last Pinnacle class, and was moved to Colgan by Mesaba people. Never dealt with anybody from Colgan till I got to class (at the Mesaba training center by the way). Had never planned on Colgan and was told it would be run by Mesaba. Also a lot of Mesaba Captain transitions in my class. So you gonna denegrate them because they were forced to Colgan like many of us? You're just mad because I pointed out the hole in your theory about no jobs. And according to your cockamame theory, it would be better to go to Colgan and build 121 time for Southwest and Delta than to keep CFIing and flying 402s anyway. Also the 135 gigs were for turbine aircraft, not 402s so try again. Decided to stay close to home because my Mom had just died and my father was very ill, so being home every night was kind of important.

Keep trying your wild theories on these junior FOs that haven't been around very long. Maybe you'll scare them to death so they vote for this so your buddies can keep their lifer jobs at Pinnacle.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Actually I was hired for the last Pinnacle class, and was moved to Colgan by Mesaba people. Never dealt with anybody from Colgan till I got to class (at the Mesaba training center by the way). Had never planned on Colgan and was told it would be run by Mesaba. Also a lot of Mesaba Captain transitions in my class. So you gonna denegrate them because they were forced to Colgan like many of us? You're just mad because I pointed out the hole in your theory about no jobs. And according to your cockamame theory, it would be better to go to Colgan and build 121 time for Southwest and Delta than to keep CFIing and flying 402s anyway. Also the 135 gigs were for turbine aircraft, not 402s so try again. Decided to stay close to home because my Mom had just died and my father was very ill, so being home every night was kind of important.

Keep trying your wild theories on these junior FOs that haven't been around very long. Maybe you'll scare them to death so they vote for this so your buddies can keep their lifer jobs at Pinnacle.

Sorry to hear about your family.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Actually I was hired for the last Pinnacle class, and was moved to Colgan by Mesaba people. Never dealt with anybody from Colgan till I got to class (at the Mesaba training center by the way). Had never planned on Colgan and was told it would be run by Mesaba. Also a lot of Mesaba Captain transitions in my class. So you gonna denegrate them because they were forced to Colgan like many of us? You're just mad because I pointed out the hole in your theory about no jobs. And according to your cockamame theory, it would be better to go to Colgan and build 121 time for Southwest and Delta than to keep CFIing and flying 402s anyway. Also the 135 gigs were for turbine aircraft, not 402s so try again. Decided to stay close to home because my Mom had just died and my father was very ill, so being home every night was kind of important.

Keep trying your wild theories on these junior FOs that haven't been around very long. Maybe you'll scare them to death so they vote for this so your buddies can keep their lifer jobs at Pinnacle.

Ahhhhhh don't get mad. Im certainly not. I think think your replies are great. Im actually smiling as I type this almost laughing at ya. Im sorry you were forced to work at Colgan after you were hired at Pinnacle. Again great career choice. Two top notch carriers. I mis spoke about your 402 experience. Im glad u found a right seat King Air 90 job. You weren't forced to Colgan either. You choose to move to Colgan or not be employed. You made a choice. Kinda like a Yes or NO TA vote. Ahhhhhh theres my point. AGAIN. Your kinda like those guys that got hired at Trans States and were told GoJets is the only one doing classes now. You made the choice. Shoulda thought about it more and re evaluated. Then you would have more seniority at your CFI job and maybe get to be PIC on that King Air too.

Your totally right though. I'll Hang onto my cockamamie theories Only if you truly promise me that you'll keep making horrible career decisions Because I think GoJetsis hiring street Capts.