90s diverted to Skywest

[bobbyice]

Wow, I was wrong. It must be that "Tide" avatar that's messing with your brain then!

If we only had a kicker.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

If we only had a kicker.

SO true. Gotta feel bad for the kid though. You know it's been a rough week.

 

[bobbyice]

Yeah, he's probably been wearing body armor to class all week. Anyways, just thought I'd share the garbage we were fed in class about the 900's going to ASA. I am in no way happy about it.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Yeah, he's probably been wearing body armor to class all week. Anyways, just thought I'd share the garbage we were fed in class about the 900's going to ASA. I am in no way happy about it.

Fair enough. I jumped the gun. Attitude is hard to judge sometimes on these boards. I apologize.

Oh yeah..... War Eagle!!!!!!!!

 

[pilotnbr1]

It may not be struck work if ASA strikes, Delta voids our contract, ASA is no more, and everyone else gets the peices. JO is foaming at the mouth for more Delta flying. Just food for thought.... I'll strike if I have to but I hope both sides have enough reason and flexibility to hammer it out before it goes that far.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

It may not be struck work if ASA strikes, Delta voids our contract, ASA is no more, and everyone else gets the peices. JO is foaming at the mouth for more Delta flying. Just food for thought.... I'll strike if I have to but I hope both sides have enough reason and flexibility to hammer it out before it goes that far.

That would be the contract already affirmed by the bankruptcy judge, right? Relax, Beavis.

 

[rickair7777]

It may not be struck work if ASA strikes, Delta voids our contract, ASA is no more, and everyone else gets the peices. JO is foaming at the mouth for more Delta flying. Just food for thought.... I'll strike if I have to but I hope both sides have enough reason and flexibility to hammer it out before it goes that far.

It would be struck work unless ASA actually shuts down.

Any SKW guys know how that might work if the company wants us to fly ASA routes that ALPA designates struck? I sure as hell don't want to do it...any SAPA input?

 

[VeeOne]

The 90's start flying out of Atlanta in December. The facts speak clearly for me. And I am looking for some truth and honesty from my MEC. Propoganda only makes them on par with management. The MEC better shoot a strait game with the pilot group, or they'll find themselves outta there in the next round of elections. I'm a die hard ALPA guy, but c'mon- don't feed me a line of s&*t....I can think for myself too.

 

[Plug]

For those gleeful to fly struck work "because they don't have a choice", GET REAL! You have a choice, vote ALPA in! You are blind if you think that what is happening at ASA won't happen at Skywest. The whipsaw is alive and well.

 

[CFIT]

For those gleeful to fly struck work "because they don't have a choice", GET REAL! You have a choice, vote ALPA in! You are blind if you think that what is happening at ASA won't happen at Skywest. The whipsaw is alive and well.

Right JJ,
I am blind and you have completely enlightened me, all these years and I can now see how I need ALPA to save me from the evils of SkyWest. The track record of what ALPA has done at ASA is more than enough to show just how better it could be. Because afterall, you have quickly resolved grevs, a contract and everybody there stands behind in support of ALPA. Not to mention those truly "blind" pilots that have come to Skywest from ASA and appear very happy, that too will only get better if we vote in ALPA.

 

[USCtrojan]

Right JJ,
I am blind and you have completely enlightened me, all these years and I can now see how I need ALPA to save me from the evils of SkyWest. The track record of what ALPA has done at ASA is more than enough to show just how better it could be. Because afterall, you have quickly resolved grevs, a contract and everybody there stands behind in support of ALPA. Not to mention those truly "blind" pilots that have come to Skywest from ASA and appear very happy, that too will only get better if we vote in ALPA.

CFIT, will you fly struck work? (I'm trying to collect the thoughts of the Skywest people here, sorry if I sound redundant)

Trojan

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Without ALPA, that POS contract that the company wants, would have been imposed on us long ago. Pretty much like that expired agreement that you guys have for 100-seats or less for 50-seat pay.

Who's standing up for you guys on that?

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Right JJ,
I am blind and you have completely enlightened me, all these years and I can now see how I need ALPA to save me from the evils of SkyWest. The track record of what ALPA has done at ASA is more than enough to show just how better it could be. Because afterall, you have quickly resolved grevs, a contract and everybody there stands behind in support of ALPA. Not to mention those truly "blind" pilots that have come to Skywest from ASA and appear very happy, that too will only get better if we vote in ALPA.

Sorry bud, you look like the blind one here. Take one look at the industry around you. Do you honestly believe you guys won't be next to feel the whipsaw?

 

[CFIT]

To all,
No I wont fly struck work, but don't think it will come to that. Jerry will give a nice big contract to keep the work going and throw airplanes over the fence at night, sad but true. The company has proposed a 7% increase differential to SAPA for flying the 70 or 76 seat aircraft plus a 2 hour callout for all reserves. For the record our expired TA has had half the shelf life of the expired ASA contract, obviously both stink but I prefer ours over the ASA version.

As for the "whipsaw" could it happen, yes it could. But I don't think it will, I have seen times this company has held up it's pilot group for the better. About 2 years ago we were 200 pilots over, 4 aircraft deliveries got delayed and United and Delta dropped their hours, the company should have furloughed but didn't because they would need them back in 6 mos and because it would have happened right before the holidays. Besides ALPA doesn't seem to be able to turn of the "whipsaw" either, so again we are all at the agreement of management anyway.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

As for the "whipsaw" could it happen, yes it could. But I don't think it will, I have seen times this company has held up it's pilot group for the better. About 2 years ago we were 200 pilots over, 4 aircraft deliveries got delayed and United and Delta dropped their hours, the company should have furloughed but didn't because they would need them back in 6 mos and because it would have happened right before the holidays. Besides ALPA doesn't seem to be able to turn of the "whipsaw" either, so again we are all at the agreement of management anyway.

For the record, conventional wisdom holds that it's cheaper to keep a pilot on the payroll if they're going to be furloughed for less than a year. I don't think Mr. Atkin is in the business of charity work, and I doubt the decision not to furlough had a thing to do with ruining anyone's holidays. If they sold you on that nonsense then the PR machine over there is pretty good.

 

[CFIT]

For the record, conventional wisdom holds that it's cheaper to keep a pilot on the payroll if they're going to be furloughed for less than a year. I don't think Mr. Atkin is in the business of charity work, and I doubt the decision not to furlough had a thing to do with ruining anyone's holidays. If they sold you on that nonsense then the PR machine over there is pretty good.

Nope, I saw the numbers and they indicated a real benefit to furlough. The company had never done it in the past and wanted to keep it that way. They offered various things to keep the loss down such as offering unpaid leaves, put the line values down, and offering additional vacation to people not eligable (new hires). It was one of the VP's that mentioned the poor timing prior to the holidays.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

ASA has never furloughed either. It doesn't mean much right now though.

I have a hard time believing you saw numbers that said the opposite. Problem with furloughs is that not all the pilots come back. They don't need to take the first call either. Anyway you cut it, they will have to go through recurrent and get another line check. It takes time and to furlough for six months just doesn't make sense even if the straight up numbers indicate otherwise. There are still other factors to include besides the black and white on the paper.

I just don't want to see this thing go down the drain because too many put blind faith in a company whose first responsibility is to the shareholder. To be sure, it helps to have happy employees but...... Pilots generally don't get to where they are by being slackers, thus they tend not to slack even when angry. IE, they always want to be on time.


The real trick is to sip the cool aid form both sides. generally the tructh lies somewhere in the middle. Sip to much from either side and.......

 

[waterski45]

For the record, conventional wisdom holds that it's cheaper to keep a pilot on the payroll if they're going to be furloughed for less than a year. I don't think Mr. Atkin is in the business of charity work, and I doubt the decision not to furlough had a thing to do with ruining anyone's holidays. If they sold you on that nonsense then the PR machine over there is pretty good.

Hulas would disagree with that conventional wisdom...wait a minute - did I just use Hulas and conventional wisdom in the same sentence?

Hulas says: "Hire until you furlough, furlough until you hire!"

 

[jstyle13]

To all,
No I wont fly struck work, but don't think it will come to that. Jerry will give a nice big contract to keep the work going and throw airplanes over the fence at night, sad but true. The company has proposed a 7% increase differential to SAPA for flying the 70 or 76 seat aircraft plus a 2 hour callout for all reserves. For the record our expired TA has had half the shelf life of the expired ASA contract, obviously both stink but I prefer ours over the ASA version.

As for the "whipsaw" could it happen, yes it could. But I don't think it will, I have seen times this company has held up it's pilot group for the better. About 2 years ago we were 200 pilots over, 4 aircraft deliveries got delayed and United and Delta dropped their hours, the company should have furloughed but didn't because they would need them back in 6 mos and because it would have happened right before the holidays. Besides ALPA doesn't seem to be able to turn of the "whipsaw" either, so again we are all at the agreement of management anyway.

I think it's awesome that the SKywest guys have had an excellent group of people managing the company and that the relationship between managment and the pilot groups seems decent. You just have to realize that here at ASA it has been beat down after beat down and lie after lie until you just don't beleive anything that Bar-b-q or King Tutt tell you because you've just been lied to and lied to time after time. I haven't been here all that long, but I just have nothing positive to say about the managment here at ASA.

As far as whipsaw, yeah it's never happened to you in the past. I hope it doens't in the future because the two pilot groups are able to unite and stand strong.....however, you've also never had two seperate pilot groups within your same company trying to get a peice of the same pie. I think ASA pilots are like a dog that's been beaten so many times that it doesn't trust anyone and is always looking over its shoulder for the next blow. I hope one day we will have the contract and 90(76) seat issue behind us with both pilot groups strong and united against any sort of whipsaw from mgm't.

 

["GO AROUND"]

As for the "whipsaw" could it happen, yes it could. But I don't think it will, I have seen times this company has held up it's pilot group for the better. About 2 years ago we were 200 pilots over, 4 aircraft deliveries got delayed and United and Delta dropped their hours, the company should have furloughed but didn't because they would need them back in 6 mos and because it would have happened right before the holidays. Besides ALPA doesn't seem to be able to turn of the "whipsaw" either, so again we are all at the agreement of management anyway.

CFIT

So why is it such a problem for Jerry to hold up the ASA pilots for the better???? The proposal is still sub SKW in most of the sections left open.

We would have had the contract done a long time ago if he had offered what you guys have in most of the sections that were left open when SKW Inc bought ASA. Futhermore, he would have had the respect of the ASA pilots as well as, as you say, the SKW pilots.

What's the problem with the stand up guy that you think Jerry is? Seems to me that he wants ASA to have a sub SKW contract. Don't ya think? What does this accomplish?

1. It helps keep ALPA off SKW property.

2. It allows him to whipsaw the 2 pilots groups against each other.

He sat and told me to my face that he didn't want to whipsaw, but if we didn't keep our costs down it would happen. SKW would grow and ASA would shrink. What do you call that?

Are the ASA pilots not equal to the SKW pilots in deserving a comperable contract? Seems Jerry doesn't think so.