9 seats one pilot

[rajflyboy]

Explain exactly how this is legal and also how they can fly major airline pax this way?

 

[DUATS]

Scheduled Part 135 with autopilot in lieu of second in command. They can code share with majors and put the name of the 135 operator in the small print.

 

[DoinTime]

You can bet that most flights (airline or not) in America will be single pilot within the next 25 years.

 

[rajflyboy]

Good old technology

But if you book United you think you are on top notch equipment and crews... then you realize you are on a 9 seat old plane with one pilot

You know people are like OMG ... WTF?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

You can bet that most flights (airline or not) in America will be single pilot within the next 25 years.

25 years? I'll take that bet.

I think we may see the start within the next 15-25, but cost of refleeting vs. paying a dude to sit upfront is a large gap to close. Most flights - not likely.

Shall we revisit in 2039? Case of beer if you're right - in which case we'll need it.

 

[340drvr]

Yes, they can probably pay hundreds of right-seaters for decades (all the ramen noodles you can eat), for orders of magnitude less than it would cost to retrofit 1900's with autopilots.

 

[rajflyboy]

I'm going to PUKE if I ever get on one of these one pilot king airs after purchasing a ticket on a major airline

 

[DoinTime]

25 years? I'll take that bet.

I think we may see the start within the next 15-25, but cost of refleeting vs. paying a dude to sit upfront is a large gap to close. Most flights - not likely.

Shall we revisit in 2039? Case of beer if you're right - in which case we'll need it.

Ahhh...you forgot about the pilot shortage. )

Seriously though, that will likely force the issue upon the airlines and government. The technology already exists to make this happen right now. Current aircraft can be retrofitted. It won't require refleeting.

There are many who once said that it wasn't safe to have 2 pilot crews flying in airline operations. Look at the world now.

 

[mesaserf]

I thought Great Mistakes was in the process of retrofitting their 1900's to nine seats so they could get past the 1500hr thing. Has this come to pass? If so it can be one of the pathways for the newly minted commercial pilot to the regionals.

 

[Traderd]

25 years? I'll take that bet.

I think we may see the start within the next 15-25, but cost of refleeting vs. paying a dude to sit upfront is a large gap to close. Most flights - not likely.

Shall we revisit in 2039? Case of beer if you're right - in which case we'll need it.

I wouldn't venture a guess as to when but there are variables that might make it happen somewhat sooner than might be expected. But the move to automation strikes me as Hemingway wrote of bankruptcy in The Sun Also Rises.

How do you go bankrupt? Two ways. Slowly and then suddenly.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

I love how our society is in such a damn hurry to automate the worker out of a job. What happens to an economy when one day you don't have a need for 10s of thousands of workers ('co-pilots') whose core competency is flying airplanes? Apply that example to other industries too.

 

[CX880]

Lots of crazies on this thread. You won't see a single pilot airliner within the next 100 years. I think even the millennium falcon had a copilot.

 

[BoilerUP]

As somebody that flies a Part 23 single pilot jet...I seriously doubt I will see Part 25 jets flown by a single pilot, especially 121, in my lifetime.

Think about it - folks that are hitting 65 were told as kids that we'd all have flying cars by now...

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Ahhh...you forgot about the pilot shortage. )

Seriously though, that will likely force the issue upon the airlines and government. The technology already exists to make this happen right now. Current aircraft can be retrofitted. It won't require refleeting.

There are many who once said that it wasn't safe to have 2 pilot crews flying in airline operations. Look at the world now.

Airliners were tooling around with a crew of two, even before the phase in and out of FEs. (DC-3s, etc...)

I'm not saying that it would be impossible to make acceptably safe, I'm doubting the economic advantage. Which aircraft were refitted with additional electronics simply to phase out FEs? I think the MD-10 is the only example I can pull off the top of my head. It was probably more economical to cover FE payroll until such time that those aircraft required replacement.

As for refitting existing aircraft for an "E-FO" or otherwise - I don't see that happening very quickly, especially from a regulatory approval standpoint.

Flying RNP approaches? Enjoying your EFB? Many are, but many also still are not - myself included.

FAA NextGen implementation with ADS-B is supposed to be completed by 2020, we're already about 4 years behind schedule.

B787 deliveries are years behind schedule and yet burst into flames and their engines choke on ice crystals.

Advances move glacially in the airline world - specifically the regulatory side.

I don't think we're going to see a retrofit kit for a 737 to be flown single pilot in the next ten years - let alone approved for FAR121 operations.

 

[nerdpilot]

It will take one Third world (talent short)(economically exploding) freight operator to operate a Bus or maybe a Boeing, single pilot without incident,(6 months) before the rest of the world will be screaming at law makers to approve it in their country.

 

[BoilerUP]

And one incapacitated pilot event and/or smoking hole for the media and lawmakers to be screaming about how stupid an idea it was.

You'd be effectively dropping to a single point of failure in an aircraft that was certified with redundancy in mind.

You'll see Part 91 single pilot G650ERs flying 7500nm looooong before the first passenger air carrier would try SP (or even one pilot/RPA backup) ops.

 

[nerdpilot]

That is a point of view but a situation that rarely happens. These aircraft will only be monitored by a single pilot and flown from thousands of miles away remotely with little to no actual input from a trained professional liability.

 

[n757st]

single pilot... no. Multi crew license, (IE essentially single pilot ops)... this decade.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

AE used to have a PBI - MIA leg in the SAAB. People climbing on board looking for first class was priceless.

 

[Kaman]

They have had 9-seat 135 commuter operations for years. The FAA doesn't really care about overall safety, or single level of safety for that matter. It is all about cost vs. benefit, operational risk vs. promoting air commerce. These 135 sked operations are going to be increasing ten-fold over the next couple of years, PC-12s, Cessna 208s, 402s, etc...

 

[acpilot]

Bash SP all you want, but the SP IFR guys on the 135 side are sharp pilots. When it comes to actually flying a plane in IMC, I'd prefer a pilot with significant expierence handling a plane SP IFR.

 

[rajflyboy]

http://www.aviationtoday.com/region...-Pilot-Sent-to-Prison_20654.html#.U6sxrrsg_cs

interesting

 

[LJ45]

So...are we going to turn the cockpit and the pilots seat into a lav? or do we just get up and go and let the autopilot watch the airplane?

And I have flow SP in Citations, but would not want to do it on a regular basis.

 

[Draginass]

Single Pilot Part 121 operations

Remotely controlled airliners

Free-flight air traffic control system

Oh, yea. This all makes perfect sense.

 

[Flyin2low]

They have had 9-seat 135 commuter operations for years. The FAA doesn't really care about overall safety, or single level of safety for that matter. It is all about cost vs. benefit, operational risk vs. promoting air commerce. These 135 sked operations are going to be increasing ten-fold over the next couple of years, PC-12s, Cessna 208s, 402s, etc...

Oh yeah, AvantAir and HopAjet are doing so well these days.

 

[Kaman]

I wasn't talking about 135 ad hoc charter outfits...I was referring to scheduled commuter ops with less than 10-seats.

 

[rajflyboy]

But some one buys a ticket on united thinking its on a big airplane and relatively safe. Then they get put on an old 1900 with 9 seats and one pilot and half the seats are not even on the aircraft

Cheesy for sure

 

[Kaman]

1900s at Great Lakes the F/O in lieu of an autopilot is my understanding...

 

[IBNAV8R]

Bash SP all you want, but the SP IFR guys on the 135 side are sharp pilots. When it comes to actually flying a plane in IMC, I'd prefer a pilot with significant expierence handling a plane SP IFR.

Why is it that these super-sharp 135 pilots have a much more dismal accident rate than so-so pilots flying 121 as a team?

I've flown with some pretty sharp SP 135 guys but, in my experience, they tend not to be very smooth and revert to single-pilot habits when crew-work is required. The few I've had try to "captain" from the right seat have all been SP IFR cargo guys.

 

[acpilot]

Why is it that these super-sharp 135 pilots have a much more dismal accident rate than so-so pilots flying 121 as a team?

I've flown with some pretty sharp SP 135 guys but, in my experience, they tend not to be very smooth and revert to single-pilot habits when crew-work is required. The few I've had try to "captain" from the right seat have all been SP IFR cargo guys.

I blame the accident rate on complacency and management pressure.

There is an expectation from mgmt that the plane goes unless there is a high risk of getting caught doing something illegal. It's a shady business.