8 hours flight time limitation

[chperplt]

Maybe I am wrong? However, it is my understanding that the the flight time limits refer to all commercial flying in a day, month, year etc. Wether it was for the same company or two. At the end of the day the total can not exceed 8 hours or what ever FAR applies to your ops. So if I fly for company B and I am employed as a pilot I can not fly more than 8 hours for compensation wether it be a revenue flight, repo or going to job number two and continueing my day there.

The commercial flying limitations are pretty specific to week, month, and year (121.471) . All commercial flying done for company A, B, or C will apply to this limitation. Again, this is only specific to weekly, monthly, and yearly totals.

The regulations regarding daily flight time limitations are not so clear.

121.471 (G) says A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.

The "legal to start legal to finish" line applies. As long as your schedule does not change from when you started, you can complete the day regardless of hours flown. Repo flights thrown in at the tail end of the day do not count toward any daily limitations. They do however count toward weekly, monthly, and yearly totals.

If you were given a repo flight at the beginning on your day, your schedule has changed and you must not keep track of your daily times, and not accept a revenue trip that will put you over 8 hours total flight time. You can still repo at the end of your day again though.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Maybe I am wrong? However, it is my understanding that the the flight time limits refer to all commercial flying in a day, month, year etc. Wether it was for the same company or two. At the end of the day the total can not exceed 8 hours or what ever FAR applies to your ops. So if I fly for company B and I am employed as a pilot I can not fly more than 8 hours for compensation wether it be a revenue flight, repo or going to job number two and continueing my day there.

My company does it as well and I don't think it is rightl or safe. If I have mis-interperated please enlighten me. Thanks

According to ALPA. You MAY exceed 30/7, 100/month, and 8 hrs between rest periods as long as you were not SCHEDULED to at the beginning of your duty period. If WX/MX .. delays you, the schedule may be completed (as long as you don't exceed 16 hours -- much to the chagrin of airline mangement.) You may not be re-scheduled to exceed those limits (ie: a change in city pair/flight number.) You can be SCHEDULED to exceed these limits if it is Part 91 tail-end flying.

Part 91 flying counts TOWARD your limits, but the limits can be exceeded with Part 91 flying. The reasoning is that no one cares if you fly fatigued as long as no paying pax are onboard.

Simple enough? Visit ALPA's site for more detailed analysis.

 

[cvsfly]

Quote: Part 91 flying counts TOWARD your limits, but the limits can be exceeded with Part 91 flying. The reasoning is that no one cares if you fly fatigued as long as no paying pax are onboard.

Well I mind. Whatever keeps me safe is what keeps the passengers safe not other way around.

 

[501261]

Jetpig, CVSFLY,

Legally you can fly a tail end reposition under 91 after you are over duty. If your contract does not permit this that is one thing, but we are talking FAR's. If the flight is done under 91, flight and duty limitations do not apply. Now is it safe under 91.13, you have to be the judge of that.

My old POI also told our company that while legal, he takes a very dim view of tale end repositions and if he found out that the company was forcing pilots to make these flights (thereby making it 135) he would try to violate the company. In our case the bottom line was that it had to be the pilot's choice to reposition or spend the night at an outstation, not the company's.
.

 

[cvsfly]

Agreed. Rule 1: fly safe. Rule 2: fly legal Rule 3: being legal does not always mean safe. Rule 4: if you can't be both safe and legal, choose being safe.

 

[Cornelius]

Its my understanding that you can also exceed the 14 hr duty day as long as when you exceed it that its not part 121 legs. For example, I had a 15.25 hr duty day once because I had to fly two repo legs. It sucked pretty bad but the dispatcher also said I don't have to accept it which is good to know. I did it anyways and it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do, although legal.

 

[KingAirer]

Anxiously waiting on GLA

Its been about three weeks since i applied to GLAkes so im thining theyre not going to call b/c i think i remeber it stating they only keep the resumes on file for a month....SO what does it take to get noticed at lakes since its all handled thru an outside agency and GLA doesnt want to be called?? I dotn know anyone at GLA so am i just screwed??
Thanks dude
jb

 

[chperplt]

Its my understanding that you can also exceed the 14 hr duty day as long as when you exceed it that its not part 121 legs.

Is the 14 hour duty day a contractual thing?? Because according to the FARs, there is no maximum duty day in hours. All the regs say is that you must be able to continuously look back and see a minimum of 8 hours rest in the preceding 24 hours.. Effectively limiting you to a 16 hour day per the FARs.

 

[Cornelius]

Its not contractual, I just remember some instructors mentioning that (14 hrs) number. 16 would make more sense though. I could be wrong as sometimes I'm known to be.

 

[501261]

"Is the 14 hour duty day a contractual thing?? "

FAR's!

121.471b and 135.267c state the appropriate duty and flight time limitations.

Basically in the 121 world you have to have 8 hours rest if you fly less than 8 hours. Under 135 you need to have 10 hours rest (because it’s unscheduled) before you can accept an assignment, with a maximum duty day of 14 hours.

These FAR's can be extended or reduced with additional crewmembers, or less flight time, etc.

The basic question asked though, is can you reposition an airplane over duty? The answer is YES, because there are no Flight Time or Duty Limitations under 91, and most repositioning flights are conducted under 91. However, under no circumstances can you reposition before a revenue leg and NOT count that as being part of your duty time.