8 hours flight time limitation

[eaglerjdfw]

Does anyone know the latest on 8 hours flight time? (air carrier 121 domestic)

I recently diverted on a scheduled flight and was then added an extra trip to reposition the aircraft to the destination. With the additional flight time for the diversion, and the reposition flight I was going to end up with 9 hours of flight time. I was told by my dispatcher that is was legal since it was wx. I was told this before I had departed on the flight that would take me over my 8 hour limit. This was all scheduled flight time, not actual. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks!


Protect your certificates!!!

 

[Andy Neill]

It would depend on whether the point to which you were repositioning after your diversion was on your original schedule or not. For instance if you were doing three out and backs from A to B and, on the last out, you were diverted to C for weather, then I could see you legally accepting the trip to A or B (but not to D) in an effort to "get back onto your scheduled route". If they wanted you to go to D instead, then that would consitute a new schedule and you would have to analyze its legality in light of what you had already flown added to what they were wanting you to do. If that exceeded 8 hours, then no go.

 

[chperplt]

As Andy said, if you were taking the aircraft to its originally dispatched destination you are legal.

If you are repositioning the aircraft under part 91, time limits do not apply, unless you have a contract which stipulates a limit.

As a side note, I wrote my graduate thesis on the topic of flight crew fatigue and wrote a great deal about the 8 hour rule. This is a topic that many pilots do not fully understand.

You can go to Flight time limitations and read what ALPA has to say about the rules. Granted, some of the material is written as ALPA interprets the rules, but there is some great information there.


http://www.alpa.org/internet/projects/ftdt/index.html

 

[dispatchguy]

Scheduled means how your trip was built by the schedule planners, actual means whats happening now.

Now, if they had tried to reassign to something not on your original trip, after you landed at the diversion airport, and that reassignment put you over 8, then that would be a no no, but continuing on your scheduled flight, is legal over 8 - just make sure you dont exceed 16 hours actual duty time - thats also a no no, regardless how your trip was built.

 

[Jetpig]

I agree with most of the statements refering to how the trip was scheduled. However, I disagree with comment on the last leg being part 91. Regardless if it was 91 ,135, 121 it was commercial time. Meaning you are being paid for it, and the limit stipulates commercial time.

 

[dispatchguy]

I've done crew scheduling for two airlines, including one of the Big 3 majors, and their contracts simply said that all flying done for the company would count, whether its part 91 or not. Just makes the math easier if nothing else.

When I worked at Kalitta eons ago at HUF, they wouldnt count 91 time as part of the 8 hour max calculation. I remember talking to a DC8 crew, and they were bitching about having done a turn to the UK from the east coast, all of it Part 91.

I wouldve bitched too.

 

[neflier]

I agree with most of the statements refering to how the trip was scheduled. However, I disagree with comment on the last leg being part 91. Regardless if it was 91 ,135, 121 it was commercial time. Meaning you are being paid for it, and the limit stipulates commercial time.

You are confusing apples and oranges. A part 91 repo that causes you to go over 8 in a duty period or 30/7, etc is often refered to as 'tail end ferry' and is perfectly legal. Now, if you started you day with a 91 ferry, that time counts towards your 8 hours and must be included if your last flight is flown under 121.

The basic idea is that neither the company you work for, nor the FAA cares if you are so tired that you create a smoking hole during a repo (91 ops). Just don't be that tired with paying pax in the back.

 

[cvsfly]

A Part 135 air ambulance company I flew for would encourage one to Part 91 repo after a full duty and flight time, but they disclaimed that they could not demand you to do that and told you not to reflect the time on your trip sheet. I think the appearance of flying over duty and flight for a repo, although in a regulatory gray area looks bad. This was single pilot C-340 - 8 hr scheduled flight and 14 hr max duty during any 24 hr period. The real catch came the next day when you were looking for 10 hr rest and to make sure your flight time didn't overlap and put you over 8 hr of flying in any 24 hr period.

 

[chperplt]

Regardless if it was 91 ,135, 121 it was commercial time. Meaning you are being paid for it, and the limit stipulates
commercial time.

Jetpig

You are incorrect. Unless a contract says otherwise, a part 91 repo flight at the end of his day does not count against his 8 hour day. As neflier said, the FAA doesn't care if you fly all night long after you've completed your "revenue" flying day.

 

[Jetpig]

Maybe I am wrong? However, it is my understanding that the the flight time limits refer to all commercial flying in a day, month, year etc. Wether it was for the same company or two. At the end of the day the total can not exceed 8 hours or what ever FAR applies to your ops. So if I fly for company B and I am employed as a pilot I can not fly more than 8 hours for compensation wether it be a revenue flight, repo or going to job number two and continueing my day there.

My company does it as well and I don't think it is rightl or safe. If I have mis-interperated please enlighten me. Thanks