747??????

[TxPilot0878]

I remember a few!

When I was a kid...my parents used to take me to I believe it was the "Hyatt (I think?)," at DFW if I made straight A's (yeah I think it only happened a couple of times), we would stay the weekend and I was glued to the Balcony watching jets and sitting with all the timetables and my binoculars so I knew when flights were coming in late at night!

I remember American Airlines operating a couple of Sp's and that was the mid 80's. Just thought I would mention it...Typhoon I couldn't depict it in your list...probably there I just didn't see it!

Tex

 

[ShawnC]

Man and I thought those things were the new 747 RJ's.

 

[ArcticFlier]

I rode on PanAm's quite often between Kennedy and Dhahran back in the late 70's early 80's until Saudia bought a bunch of them. I kinda liked not having to stop at Heathrow or Shannon for fuel, but 12-14 hours on a plane got old after awhile. PanAm would go into Dhahran and then we'd have to get on a Saudia 707 or L1011 to get over to Jeddah. When Saudia bought them we'd go straight into Jeddah from NYC. Much nicer.

AF

 

[GCD]

f9driver,

Did you guys heavy crew or double crew on those flights?

Funny you mentioned the 30' climb. I would guess someone at AAI got scared once because the AAI limitation is 17' nose up for climb.

 

[banned username 2]

He claimed that once they went from "brakes off" to FL450 in 9 minutes (with about 3 hours of fuel onboard).

Hhhmm... my BS light just went on... Didn't know any 747's were certified above FL410... And brake release to FL450 in 9 mins? That is AVERAGING 5,000 FPM all the way up... hhmmm...

 

[banned username 2]

Well you learn stuff everyday, because the -400 certified up to 45100'.

Yes you do... but was the SP?

 

[Typhoon1244]

There is some Arab sheik that will bring his private sp into LEX during the horseshows. As you can imagine the thing is spotless.

The sheik or the 7-4?

Personally, the SP doesn't impress me as much as the SR. If I remember correctly, it was a 747-200 with all-coach seating stressed for short hops and high landing weights. I believe JAS operated them.

All-coach on a 7-4 means about 550 passengers.

That's a whole bunch of Japenese commuters in one place!

 

[GCD]

No need for the BS meter to activate. Actually, all 747's are certified to 45,100'. An empty SP could probably do 5,000 FPM. I've flown an empty -300 and averaged 4,500 FPM. The -300 at JAL has -7R engines, with 53,000 lbs thrust. Atlas Air has a couple of -300's with GE's, and fly very nicely, as well. I haven't flown one of those empty, though.

JAL also had -200's with -7Q and 7R engine. Those guys could get up and go and were fun to fly.

As far as the 550 seater. I have actually flown it several times. It is a -300 with 549 seat configuration flown by JAL. I took off from PHNL with 551 pax one day (two BIA's). I don't remember how many FA's I had on that flight. The JAL minimum on a Classic 747 was 16. I never remember having fewer than 19, and had as many as 25. JAS didn't have any 747's before the merger.

JAL also has a SUD model, with the same high density configuration for domestic flights. The SUD (Stretch Upper Deck) was built from a -100 airframe with -7A engines by Boeing Witchita. JAL still had some of the original -100's on line when I first went to work there. They still looked like they were fresh off the factory line until they were sold. JAL spared no cost in maintenance.

As far as water injection; The early -3A engines were weak and needed a little help until the -7A came along.

 

[banned username 2]

No need for the BS meter to activate. Actually, all 747's are certified to 45,100'. An empty SP could probably do 5,000 FPM.

I don't doubt that it could do 5,000 FPM, initially... but maintain an AVERAGE of 5,000 FPM all the way up to FL450??? I think that might be a bit of a stretch...

 

[f9driver]

747SP

Yup, cruised at 43-45000' depending on direction at the tail end of every flight. The light weight 5,000 fpm is probably right too as intially it was a lot more. It had almost 200,000 lbs. of thrust and it's empty weight was something like 320,000 lbs. With 30-40,000 lbs. of fuel that is a heck of a thrust to weight ratio.
The 747-200's we had with the -7Q engines were "goers" too. It also cruised at those levels when very light.

 

[banned username 2]

OK, didn't know the BOW, thought it was a lot higher, someone had mentioned 660,000 but I guess that was MGTOW... How did you manage above FL410??? Thought 121 O2 requirements kept you guys at FL410 or below...

 

[GCD]

The only Part 121 restriction for flight above FL410 is that one pilot must be on O2.

 

[banned username 2]

The only Part 121 restriction for flight above FL410 is that one pilot must be on O2.

Oh, I thought there was something about PAX O2 requirements, and thats why you never see airliners (except the Concorde) above FL410... So there is nothing limiting airliners from going above FL410 except the lack of performance of the aircraft?

 

[f9driver]

747SP

We usually had one pilot put the O2 mask on his lap. It was usually only the last 1 1/2-2 hrs of the flight.
Pan Am, for some reason, was pretty casual about the 02 mask. When we traded the Carribean routes to AMR we had a lot of their check pilots fly with us for a few weeks. They commented on the differences in our O2 mask practices.

 

[GCD]

f9driver,

I'm sure you know a lot of X PanAm guys now at Atlas. A lot of them have gone to, or very near going to the side seat.

Falcon,

No Pax O2 difference, just crew.

As far as performance, one has to be careful in a -200 with -7R or CF6 engines. The engines can out performe the wing at heavy weights. For example, engine performance may be capable of FL410, but airframe may only be capable of FL350.

Guys using PMS can fall into this trap. The PMS may tell you 41,000, but it's best to turn around and ask the engineer what the airplane is able to do.

 

[f9driver]

GCD,
I did know a few including one who was, I believe, CP for Atlas for awhile, who was our CP in LA. Most of them have retired as they are pushing 70 now.

 

[Brett Hull]

One of theese has been in MDT the last few times I've been there. Kinda random if you ask me! Anyone know that one's story?

I heard from a friend's uncle's brother's....you know, that it's a middle-eastern developer who owns a bunch of land around Harrisburg.

 

[f9driver]

GCD,
We had two bunks in the cockpit and usually 3 pilots and two FE's. The engines were pretty standard... JT9D-7's I believe. The only injection I knew about was water injection on the earliest of the 707's and 747's. They got rid of that as soon as they could with new engine mods.

 

[Snakum]

I'm sitting here imagining what it'd be like to buy GCD, F9, Typhoon, and a couple other of you guys a case of beer and sit around my living room till the wee hours.

Wannabe heaven.



Minh

 

[sky37d]

I'm sitting here imagining what it'd be like to buy GCD, F9, Typhoon, and a couple other of you guys a case of beer and sit around my living room till the wee hours.

Wannabe heaven.



Minh

WOW, if you ever do, let me know, I'll bring a case too!! That would be something to not miss for sure

I'm also thinking how cool it would be to have one of those SP's, always keep it light, and always ask ATC for unrestricted climb to FL410. What a hoot that would be.