747??????

[banned username 2]

OK, didn't know the BOW, thought it was a lot higher, someone had mentioned 660,000 but I guess that was MGTOW... How did you manage above FL410??? Thought 121 O2 requirements kept you guys at FL410 or below...

 

[GCD]

The only Part 121 restriction for flight above FL410 is that one pilot must be on O2.

 

[banned username 2]

The only Part 121 restriction for flight above FL410 is that one pilot must be on O2.

Oh, I thought there was something about PAX O2 requirements, and thats why you never see airliners (except the Concorde) above FL410... So there is nothing limiting airliners from going above FL410 except the lack of performance of the aircraft?

 

[f9driver]

747SP

We usually had one pilot put the O2 mask on his lap. It was usually only the last 1 1/2-2 hrs of the flight.
Pan Am, for some reason, was pretty casual about the 02 mask. When we traded the Carribean routes to AMR we had a lot of their check pilots fly with us for a few weeks. They commented on the differences in our O2 mask practices.

 

[GCD]

f9driver,

I'm sure you know a lot of X PanAm guys now at Atlas. A lot of them have gone to, or very near going to the side seat.

Falcon,

No Pax O2 difference, just crew.

As far as performance, one has to be careful in a -200 with -7R or CF6 engines. The engines can out performe the wing at heavy weights. For example, engine performance may be capable of FL410, but airframe may only be capable of FL350.

Guys using PMS can fall into this trap. The PMS may tell you 41,000, but it's best to turn around and ask the engineer what the airplane is able to do.

 

[f9driver]

GCD,
I did know a few including one who was, I believe, CP for Atlas for awhile, who was our CP in LA. Most of them have retired as they are pushing 70 now.

 

[Brett Hull]

One of theese has been in MDT the last few times I've been there. Kinda random if you ask me! Anyone know that one's story?

I heard from a friend's uncle's brother's....you know, that it's a middle-eastern developer who owns a bunch of land around Harrisburg.

 

[f9driver]

GCD,
We had two bunks in the cockpit and usually 3 pilots and two FE's. The engines were pretty standard... JT9D-7's I believe. The only injection I knew about was water injection on the earliest of the 707's and 747's. They got rid of that as soon as they could with new engine mods.

 

[Snakum]

I'm sitting here imagining what it'd be like to buy GCD, F9, Typhoon, and a couple other of you guys a case of beer and sit around my living room till the wee hours.

Wannabe heaven.



Minh

 

[sky37d]

I'm sitting here imagining what it'd be like to buy GCD, F9, Typhoon, and a couple other of you guys a case of beer and sit around my living room till the wee hours.

Wannabe heaven.



Minh

WOW, if you ever do, let me know, I'll bring a case too!! That would be something to not miss for sure

I'm also thinking how cool it would be to have one of those SP's, always keep it light, and always ask ATC for unrestricted climb to FL410. What a hoot that would be.

 

[310]

GCD,
Please explain airframe altitude limits while heavy.
Thanks

 

[f9driver]

I think what GCD may have been referring to is the buffet boundry. Optimum altitude was the one that gave you a 1.3G buffet boundry for moderate turbulence or, I think, a sustained 30 deg. bank turn. 2.0g was needed for severe turbulence. The special engines, -7R and -7Q, could get you to an altitude where the wing had little margin above stall in a turn or for turbulence. I know our 747-200 freighter, with -7Q's on a ferry or very light load leg, would get you too high for your own good as we discovered one night when we lost both yaw dampers.
Interesting fact: In the early years Pan Am made crews fly the whole leg with one pilot having his hands on the throttles at all times. The early JT-9D's were so were so critical that a bleed could stick or airflow disrupted and suddenly the EGT would go to a 1000 degs or more and cook the turbines. This went on for a year or more until they improved it with the -3 and -3A mods. On the ground turning 90 degs. while taxiing in a strong wind would do the same and for years the FEO had to keep his hands near or on on the cut-off levers while taxiing. Someone said it was the first large engine that did not have key engine sections proven by military flying as was the B-707 and others. Engine maint. was so expensive it probably contributed something to Pan Ams later demise.

 

[GCD]

Tell me where your living room is and have the beer ready.

The airframe limitation is mostly for the wing to be able to have a 1.3g maneuvering and gust capability at a specific altitude. The engines may be able to do FL450, but the airframe may be too heavy for the wing to provide a 1.3g manuevering and gust load at that altitude. The cruise charts need to be looked at to see what the 1.3g cruise limit is for a specific weight for swept wing airplanes.

I have an accronym for remembering how to select a cruise altitude.

ABCC1.3

A = ATC requirements for direction of flight
B = Best specific range
C = Cruise speed maintained with max continuous cruise thrust
C = Climb capability of at least 300fpm
1.3 = 1.3g manuevering capability

 

[Typhoon1244]

I'm sitting here imagining what it'd be like to buy GCD, F9, Typhoon, and a couple other of you guys a case of beer and sit around my living room till the wee hours.

Can I be the designated driver? (I hate the taste of beer...)

 

[Snakum]

Actually, I should have differentiated between Typhoon the Younger - who is a sharp young Regional Captain and is my hero, and Typhoon the Elder - who flew the big stuff back in the good old days.

Your still my hero, though, and I live my life vicariously through you. Well, except for that part about being the proud parent of a bouncing baby boy. It was a lot of fun but I'm too old to do that again.

Cute little feller though.

Minh Thong