737 descent without speedbrake?

[snoopy_1]

I would like to know how often 737-600/700/800 pilots are able to fly a complete leg without ever needing to use the speedbrake to descend, I did not think it was used very much, but some others say it is used all of the time.

Thanks.

 

[its none ya]

It depends on if you are a lazy pilot or not. As long as ATC doesn't screw you, you should never have to use the speed brakes. Some guys use it all the time because they don't bother to plan there decent. You can't count on the Vnav on the 737-800 to keep you out of trouble, it will screw you every time. Its just not smart enough (ITS NO 757).

Short version is, it depends on how you want to fly the airplane.

 

[atafan]

I try to Plan ahead and rarely use the speed brakes. If you use the V/B function on the Vnav descent page along with inputting the descent winds you will have a fair shot at never having to use the speed brakes. You might have to remind ATC about future crossing altitudes so that you don't get high. The B737-800 isn't as forgiving as other aircraft, especially with the winglets, but with proper planning you rarely need to use the speed brakes, ATC can mess you up real quickly.

The speed brakes on the B737-800 shake the aircraft, makes a lot of noise while doing very little else. Numerous Civet arrivals in LAX require the gear down very early to maintain the profile and maintain ATC speed adjustments.

Just my 2 cents worth.....

 

[ACAFool]

It doesn't work that well any way. It just makes it shake.

 

[General Lee]

Or, if your 737 has VNAV, you can place a point 3-4 miles in front of your planned crossing restriction at that altitiude and it should make the point, even with a slight tailwind. If you have a large tailwind, plan 5 miles prior or as needed.


atafan,

Next time you try the Civet, put .78/280 in the DES page---it will bring the descent points back a bit and you will be amazed how easy it is to fly(then hit speed interveen and control the speed with your MCP--but the VNAV descent points are still a little farther back than normal due to your initial .78/280 restriction). No gear required until atleast the Harbor Freeway.(normally)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[its none ya]

General,

At ATA we use a cost index of 32 on the 737 (God only knows why). This automatically set the decent page at .78/275. Most guys override this, otherwise why fly a jet. But your way does work. Another way is to look at the decent page and see what is required to make the restriction and use the vertical speed, instead of Vnav. This keeps the airplane from pitching for speed all the way down. It is a much nicer ride.

 

[80/20]

Most pilots will take pride in flying cost efficient and try to avoid using speedbrakes.

They will often manage to get down fast enough without pulling the speedbrake when flying their anticipated route. ATC, shortcuts and so on will frequently change the plan and place you too high, and some will use the speedbrake right away. Others will say as ACAFool, it doesn’t work that well and use other means first such as higher airspeed or dropping the gear a bit early….

 

[snoopy_1]

Thanks everyone for the help, I appreciate it.

 

[StopNTSing]

...and from the SWA perspective....

What the heck is VNAV?

 

[80/20]

Sorry to divert from the topic, but StopNTSing - I heard that SWA had (or is going to have) a campaign to try to fly improved vertical profile, using all available data, cruising higher, using winds aloft and so on to improve cost efficiency, will that include the use of VNAV ?….

 

[SWA/FO]

That is nothing new at SWA. VNAV would be something new at SWA. I almost never use the speedbrakes. When I do it is always in the -700 with winglets.

 

[snoopy_1]

Thanks again for the replys, I would like to rephrase the question, how often do you use the speedbrake to slow down, not to descend, just to slow down?

Thanks again.

 

[canyonblue]

I have also very rarely used the speed brakes. The Civet can be a challenge but without VNAV and Auto-Throttles the mind is forced to work very fast.

 

[mach zero]

I would like to know how often 737-600/700/800 pilots are able to fly a complete leg without ever needing to use the speedbrake to descend, I did not think it was used very much, but some others say it is used all of the time.

Thanks.

In my experience with the -800, we use it 40% of the time. I find like others here that ATC holding you up well past the VNAV TOD then asking you to still make the crossing restriction is the culprit. The last couple of times I have flown CIVET at LAX I have not needed them. Guess we were lucky.

M 0

 

[BHS]

The Dunlops are the best to slow down if you have to in a hurry. Otherwise, not to often. Previous posts on planned descent are pretty much right on, in using the vnav.

 

[TR4A]

how often do you use the speedbrake to slow down, not to descend, just to slow down?

Most of the time the use of speed brakes is for the state-of-the-art Air Traffic Control system. You have planned your descent with a certain speed then ATC tells you at last second that they want 250 kts. So out come the speedbrakes because now at 250 kts you are going to be high.

 

[AK737FO]

Ready Boards, Boards Now...

What is that old saying about speed breaks? They are to cover for my mistakes, not ATC's. Alaska 32, cross Gasto at 12,000 and 250 knots. Unable. Can you give me the 12,000? I can give you 12,000 or 250, but not both. Problem solved. One of two things will happen next, I will either be number one for the visual, keep the speed up - or I will be number 7 for the approach behind China (north, south, east or west -take your pick) who is doing a 20 mile, 150 knot final.

 

[Caveman]

Okay, I'l bite. What's wrong with using speed brakes? Stay high longer to save fuel and then rocket on down at the last minute. What's the big deal? Is this some kind of ol' timer traditional thing? If I'm not sopposed to use them why did they give 'em to me in the first place?

 

[jobear]

Okay, I'l bite. What's wrong with using speed brakes? Stay high longer to save fuel and then rocket on down at the last minute. What's the big deal? Is this some kind of ol' timer traditional thing?

"HEELLLOOO Pot this the kettle calling"

OLD LOL

Jobear

 

[Guppiedriver]

The Dunlops are the best to slow down if you have to in a hurry. Otherwise, not to often. Previous posts on planned descent are pretty much right on, in using the vnav.

I think they're Michelins.