717's to DELTA

[SWA/FO]

Upward movement is just not as fast at SWA due to fewer aircraft types. Their business model doesn't include that, which is one reason they are dumping the 717s. When one SWA Capt retires on the 737, one FO upgrades and one new hire fills in for the upgrading FO. That's not the same at the Legacies. One guy off the top leaves, and multiple upgrades on multiple planes, most of which pay more as you go bigger. That gives plenty of opportunities to try different planes, routes, long haul or short haul, etc. Over the next decade, the sys Chief Pilot stated a min of 3500 newhires at DL, whereas the VP of Flt Ops stated it could be up to 7000 in the next 10 years. By 2015, new hire pay is supposed to be $71 per hour, which is not bad at all.

Delta looks like the place to be, with all those old goats leaving soon.

 

[zman]

Delta, United, AMR/USAIR and even Alaska all have higher percentage retirements then SWA.

 

[canyonblue]

One guy off the top leaves, and multiple upgrades on multiple planes, most of which pay more as you go bigger. That gives plenty of opportunities to try different planes, routes, long haul or short haul, etc.


Bye Bye---General Lee

747-400: 16

777-200LR: 10

777: 8

A330-300: 21

A330-200: 11

So it's 66 "Big Airplanes" at Mama Delto, I wouldn't look at that as a great plan of action. And at Southwest you will make the same top out as the A330 FO and never have to leave the country and your family. Might be ok if you are single, but once you get married and have a family, being that far away would have it's drawbacks.

 

[General Lee]

747-400: 16

777-200LR: 10

777: 8

A330-300: 21

A330-200: 11
U
So it's 66 "Big Airplanes" at Mama Delto, I wouldn't look at that as a great plan of action. And at Southwest you will make the same top out as the A330 FO and never have to leave the country and your family. Might be ok if you are single, but once you get married and have a family, being that far away would have it's drawbacks.

By 2015 the smallest plane we will have (your 717s) will pay $195 an hour for 12 year Capts, and a lot more for everything else bigger, and then a new contract comes up in 2 1/2 years. Things will be moving rapidly, whereas you guys will stagnate due to the young AirTran group coming in. And, most of the retirements will come off of those 66 widebodies,(where's the 767-400? At least 20 of those) which crew more pilots per plane because of the long stage lengths. It's gonna "rain cash and upgrades." (Thanks to 500+ leaving per year and extra Greenslips handed out for lack of crews). You guys will be in a drought, for years. All 3 big legacies will have huge retirements. I bet the bottom half of your list will be looking.

And you forgot the 767-400, which pays the same as the A330 and does only INTL flying, like Heathrow and São Paulo. It's a separate category from the 757/767, paying about $20 more per hour with INTL override.

And of course, you neglected to add the 757/767, which are numerous, and fly all over the world. Those will pay equal to your 737s initially in the contract, and then pass them. Throw in INTL override and higher per diem, and it gets better.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

747-400: 16

777-200LR: 10

777: 8

A330-300: 21

A330-200: 11

So it's 66 "Big Airplanes" at Mama Delto, I wouldn't look at that as a great plan of action. And at Southwest you will make the same top out as the A330 FO and never have to leave the country and your family. Might be ok if you are single, but once you get married and have a family, being that far away would have it's drawbacks.

You forgot the 767/757 category Canyon....

I love International.....I only bid 3 or 4 day trips but if a guy wants to and can hold it, there are 12 days which go pretty senior.

Thanks for the opinion but a bad argument.

 

[say again]

Wow, still the same lame argument over why my flying is better than yours. Personal preference. Some people like staying within the US, while others enjoy the international trips. As for size of the plane...who cares?!?! I fly business jets and love it. Do a combo of both int'l and domestic. Personally, I enjoy the shorter legs versus trans-con/atlantic crossings. BUT, I enjoy my down time seeing the different sights of the world. Trade-off I guess.

 

[General Lee]

Wow, still the same lame argument over why my flying is better than yours. Personal preference. Some people like staying within the US, while others enjoy the international trips. As for size of the plane...who cares?!?! I fly business jets and love it. Do a combo of both int'l and domestic. Personally, I enjoy the shorter legs versus trans-con/atlantic crossings. BUT, I enjoy my down time seeing the different sights of the world. Trade-off I guess.

So, the Legacies ONLY fly INTL? We have plenty of pilots who have NEVER flown INTL routes or widebodies. I talked to a FNWA guy who has spent the last 25 years on the DC9, starting out at Republic, and who is now in the top 10 Captains in DTW on the DC9. But, he has a CHOICE. If he wants to, he can next go to the MD88, or bid the A330 as a Captain. That is the difference. Choice.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

So, the Legacies ONLY fly INTL? We have plenty of pilots who have NEVER flown INTL routes or widebodies. I talked to a FNWA guy who has spent the last 25 years on the DC9, starting out at Republic, and who is now in the top 10 Captains in DTW on the DC9. But, he has a CHOICE. If he wants to, he can next go to the MD88, or bid the A330 as a Captain. That is the difference. Choice.



Bye Bye---General Lee

5 legs a day to PNS and HSV, no thanks.

 

[canyonblue]

It's gonna "rain cash and upgrades."


Bye Bye---General Lee

I heard that enough in 2000 from "Legacy" guys, it doesn't always work out that way. The number one reason I chose SWA was it's balance sheet and the schedules. Rule Number One: You're in the Airline business, there are no sure things. Rule Number Two: Always remember Rule Number One

I bet the bottom half of your list will be looking.

I've seen it before, it didn't work out too well for them now did it?

 

[Crizz]

This discussion is unbecoming of the fine pilots at both Delta and Southwest.