717's to DELTA

[say again]

So, the Legacies ONLY fly INTL? We have plenty of pilots who have NEVER flown INTL routes or widebodies. I talked to a FNWA guy who has spent the last 25 years on the DC9, starting out at Republic, and who is now in the top 10 Captains in DTW on the DC9. But, he has a CHOICE. If he wants to, he can next go to the MD88, or bid the A330 as a Captain. That is the difference. Choice.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Huh? I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I know the legacies do both, that's just ridiculous to say otherwise. My point is that just because you like int'l flying doesn't mean others do. The SWA guys/gals all seem pretty damn happy flying domestically in their 737. Yes I think choice is a great thing, but if you have no choice, then you learn to accept and live with what you have. I think they all knew going in that SWA only has one fleet and flies domestically. One question, do you feel superior because you have a choice of flying int'l or domestic?

 

[waveflyer]

One comment: I hope you reallly don't believe you are immune to either.

No- I'm diligent- but I work my business so that if what could happen does- I can walk-

True integrity means building a life where you can make the right call and not end up on the street-

That said, the culture of swa both with mgmt and the union would have to fall a lot- I continue to feel lucky to have both

 

[humveedriver]

By 2015 the smallest plane we will have (your 717s) will pay $195 an hour for 12 year Capts, and a lot more for everything else bigger, and then a new contract comes up in 2 1/2 years.

That's a good thing. SWA is suppose to be a low cost carrier. So it's good for them to have the competitions cost higher. Fortunetaly, for everyone in the industry SWA was able to increase and maintain narrow body wages, while the legacies went through bankruptcy and lowered wages (with those hedges). So, thank you SWA for holding the line. And thank you Delta for resuming your role of higher salary and costs.

 

[General Lee]

Huh? I think you missed the point of what I was saying. I know the legacies do both, that's just ridiculous to say otherwise. My point is that just because you like int'l flying doesn't mean others do. The SWA guys/gals all seem pretty damn happy flying domestically in their 737. Yes I think choice is a great thing, but if you have no choice, then you learn to accept and live with what you have. I think they all knew going in that SWA only has one fleet and flies domestically. One question, do you feel superior because you have a choice of flying int'l or domestic?

You're right, not everyone likes the INTL flying. Some can't sleep in the rest facility (you will be miserable if that is the case), nor can they sleep 9 time zones away. It isn't for everybody. But, you can always try it out. Even on the 757/767 "ER" Category, I would say 60% of the flying is domestic only trips, so if you try a 8 day Asia trip and can't get accustomed to the time zones, or you don't like the brew or food in Europe (?), then you can bid back to normal 4 day domestic only trips. Or try a Hawaii and a domestic trip. Or do one day turns, etc etc etc. Get the picture. If you are too junior and on reserve and keep getting Lagos, then you can bid the 737 and make sure you never see that place again. Choice, is good. That was my point. Your airline doesn't have that. (just pointing out a fact) That can be good and bad.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

That's a good thing. SWA is suppose to be a low cost carrier. So it's good for them to have the competitions cost higher. Fortunetaly, for everyone in the industry SWA was able to increase and maintain narrow body wages, while the legacies went through bankruptcy and lowered wages (with those hedges). So, thank you SWA for holding the line. And thank you Delta for resuming your role of higher salary and costs.

That is true, but the reason they got to the higher rates was because someone else got their first, and held it until the BK, which was after the SWA contract......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[humveedriver]

That is true, but the reason they got to the higher rates was because someone else got their first, and held it until the BK, which was after the SWA contract......


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yeah, but they did it without big time scope relief. Which is more impressive than what you guys did 11-ish years ago.

 

[General Lee]

Yeah, but they did it without big time scope relief. Which is more impressive than what you guys did 11-ish years ago.

They never had feed or asked for scope relief, it wasn't even in their business plan, especially back then after 9-11. There was never a hub and spoke type plan, with flying to smaller cities that RJs could have done. Not the same at all. They just mirrored the DL rates. I am glad they kept it, which now helps the DL pilots again. And, let's hope they keep it in the future as well. (GK seems to be on a cost rampage as of late)



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[humveedriver]

They never had feed or asked for scope relief, it wasn't even in their business plan, especially back then after 9-11.
Bye Bye---General Lee

Neat concept huh?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

GL.....the elephant in the room behind ya is that now instead of RJ
scope ......we need to worry about Alaska scope.

 

[General Lee]

GL.....the elephant in the room behind ya is that now instead of RJ
scope ......we need to worry about Alaska scope.

I agree, but even AK is growth limited coming up here. They are running out of space on the West Coast,(maybe SAN hub?) their new order doesn't add too many extra planes for growth compared to just replacements. How many more cities can they go nonstop from SEA or PDX? LAX is full.

We do have to watch domestic and INTL scope, you are right about that. No doubt there.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Diesel-9]

""
So it's 66 "Big Airplanes" at Mama Delto, I wouldn't look at that as a great plan of action. And at Southwest you will make the same top out as the A330 FO and never have to leave the country and your family. Might be ok if you are single, but once you get married and have a family, being that far away would have it's drawbacks.""For some it may, and being home 18-20 days a month or more with 5 weeks vacation is good for some also.

 

[General Lee]

""
So it's 66 "Big Airplanes" at Mama Delto, I wouldn't look at that as a great plan of action. And at Southwest you will make the same top out as the A330 FO and never have to leave the country and your family. Might be ok if you are single, but once you get married and have a family, being that far away would have it's drawbacks.""For some it may, and being home 18-20 days a month or more with 5 weeks vacation is good for some also.

Not really. With Face to Face talking on your Iphone, you could be in Dayton or Narita and it wouldn't matter. Now, getting home quick might, but things happen, regardless if you are near or far away. If you NEED to be nearby, then maybe 1 day turns from a hub might be a better choice for you. 12 day Asia trips are good if you want a large chunk of time off inbetween trips. Throw one of those on at the beginning of one month, and another at the end of the next, and you get 30 straight days off. But, you don't have to do those, and they actually go fairly senior to guys who only want one commute a month. It's called CHOICE. You can bid a category that only does Domestic and flies a max of 4 days at a time, or you can go INTL and fly longer trips. Nobody HAS TO FLY INTL if they don't want to.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Scoot 11]

You could replace "delta" with ANY airline name there...

Specifically Southwest!

 

[canyonblue]

The pay used to be the main difference SWA pilots pointed out, but that is quickly changing.

Bye Bye---General Lee

"The Pay" never crossed my mind when I applied at Southwest. In fact it was far from the highest paid airline. My main motivation was that I wanted to work at Southwest. It is a great place to work and from talking to many other pilots at other airlines, they don't feel the same way about their current place of employment. Perhaps that is why "PAY" is such a big issue at those airlines, they have to make it worthwhile to actually show up for work.

 

[SplitBar]

Not really. With Face to Face talking on your Iphone, you could be in Dayton or Narita and it wouldn't matter. Now, getting home quick might, but things happen, regardless if you are near or far away. If you NEED to be nearby, then maybe 1 day turns from a hub might be a better choice for you. 12 day Asia trips are good if you want a large chunk of time off inbetween trips. Throw one of those on at the beginning of one month, and another at the end of the next, and you get 30 straight days off. But, you don't have to do those, and they actually go fairly senior to guys who only want one commute a month. It's called CHOICE. You can bid a category that only does Domestic and flies a max of 4 days at a time, or you can go INTL and fly longer trips. Nobody HAS TO FLY INTL if they don't want to.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Tell that to our most junior pilots who are on the 757/767 in NYC. They have to fly INTL and have no say in the matter.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Tell that to our most junior pilots who are on the 757/767 in NYC. They have to fly INTL and have no say in the matter.

I'm sure if you talk to them they'll tell you how much they hate those 48hr layovers in Paris and Amsterdam.:beer:

Very few people are on the 7ER in NYC involuntarily these days. This isn't 2007.

 

[General Lee]

Tell that to our most junior pilots who are on the 757/767 in NYC. They have to fly INTL and have no say in the matter.

So, the can't bid the 320, md88, or 737 in NYC? Sure they can. They can bid away and never fly INTL again if they want. You know that is true. If they are junior on it now, they bid it or had a chance to bid off.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

So, the can't bid the 320, md88, or 737 in NYC? Sure they can. They can bid away and never fly INTL again if they want. You know that is true. If they are junior on it now, they bid it or had a chance to bid off.


Bye Bye---General Lee

What if they don't want to fly 4-5 legs a day domestically?

 

[Lear70]

I'm sure if you talk to them they'll tell you how much they hate those 48hr layovers in Paris and Amsterdam.:beer:

Very few people are on the 7ER in NYC involuntarily these days. This isn't 2007.

You could sign me up for those in a heartbeat.

Then again, that's why I bid 737 MCO, I do almost primarily long int'l layovers and like it. When the MCO 737 base closes next year I'll be deferring to ATL so I can keep flying the long Int'l layovers until we turn the lights out here.

Different strokes for different folks, but I like 1-2 legs a day 6-7 hours of flying a day then 18-24 hour layovers, preferably commutable on both sides, even if it's less time each month than the guys doing 4-5 legs a day domestically. More money would be nice, but I organized my financials to be just fine on guarantee.

Hopefully those trips will still exist on the SWA side, they will be unpopular, and I can trade for them.

 

[JohnQ]

If you are too junior and on reserve and keep getting Lagos, then you can bid the 737 and make sure you never see that place again.

General,

Don't knock LOS until you try it. Other than holidays (Thanksgiving) the trip is not a junior trip at all.

Let's see...it is a "four day" that doesn't sign in until 9 pm on day one, and finishes at 0530 on day four. It is worth nearly 25 hours, and you sleep halfway there in the condo (infinitely better than any crew rest seat in the cabin). Granted, Nigeria is a 4th world dump, but after the armed escort, you get to a pretty nice hotel around 5 pm. Meet by the tiki bar and the pool about 6:30, and enjoy a Star or Gulder or two. If it is buffet night, enjoy a world class buffet (food all imported from Europe) poolside with the calypso band for your entertainment. If it is not buffet night, enjoy a tasty kebob or pizza, or try the indoor buffet, Italian restaurant, or Irish pub inside.

Hit the rack about 11 pm or so. Wake up, work out in the very nice gym. Hang out by the pool after that (maybe ogle some European stews, it is hit or miss) and enjoy a late lunch. Take a nap, work on the computer, whatever, and pick up that evening. DAL gives you enough money as a credit to the hotel that you hardly spend any.

Then fly home over the mid-Atlantic--no tracks, hardly any traffic once west of Dakar, and if you aren't in the cockpit, you are once again snoozing in the condo.

Did I mention the trip was worth almost 25 hours? While I wouldn't want a steady diet of this (it's hardly Stuttgart, and no one is pretending that it is) doing one a month or per quarter is a fairly good deal.

That is, unless you are senior to me, then it sucks!

 

[Scoot 11]

Tell that to our most junior pilots who are on the 757/767 in NYC. They have to fly INTL and have no say in the matter.

Um, pardon me for pointing out the obvious, but that 757/767 pilots in NYC "that don't want to fly international," could easily bid off to the DC9 M88 or 737, with NO PROBLEMS. The 7ER is not the most jr category in the company.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Tell that to our most junior pilots who are on the 757/767 in NYC. They have to fly INTL and have no say in the matter.

Now that is just plain silly. If they don't want international, there are several choices available to them, and they never should have bid for an international category. Yes, junior reserve 7ER/B in NYC goes really junior, but if anyone was involuntarily displaced to that category they were just being stupid with their preferences.

 

[Monster Buck]

Although you have to fly international at US Air if you want some money as a CA. Lowest paid jr CA at Delta, DC9 $170/hr......US Air top CA A330 $160/hr.