717 isn't that great

[Formula 1]

Quick Thought on Southwest and the 717

Published by Dan Webb on August 25, 2011 on Southwest.

I realize I’m playing catch-up here, but during Southwest’s quarterly media call earlier this month, CEO Gary Kelly had some interesting comments on the AirTran 717s and that size of aircraft in general:

We have broad discussions underway with Boeing on a number of issues, and at this point we don’t see a reason why we would want to have a different aircraft other than the 737. So, that’s not to say that we don’t want the 717 because we’ve got them, but we don’t see a reason to keep the 717s longer than we have to, or find a unique replacement for the 717 that is anything other than the 737.

Gary also said during the call that it has lease commitments on 717s through 2024.

Those comments made me do a little more digging.

First off, the vast majority (80 of 88, according to Southwest’s most recent 10-Q) of those AirTran 717s are leased aircraft, and it appears that most of these are leased from Boeing. AirTran is the biggest customer of Boeing’s leasing arm, Boeing Capital Corp., representing 29.9% of the firm’s total portfolio at the end of the first half of 2011. In addition, AirTran accounted for 21% of Boeing Capital’s total revenue during the first six months of this year, according to regulatory filings.

The way I look at things – it appears that if Southwest wanted to get out of those 717 leases early, it probably could work something out with Boeing. Something like that could happen if Southwest was interested in making some new orders anytime soon.

Of course, this all depends on how Southwest feels about the 717 overall. After doing some of my own number crunching, it appears the aircraft might not be a great fit from a cost perspective. Using total operating costs from Form 41 financial data, and ramp-to-ramp time from Form 41 traffic data, the operating cost per block hour for the AirTran 717 in all of 2018 is around $3,211, higher than the $2,922 I calculated for the airline’s 737-700 aircraft.

Now, Form 41 data doesn’t always paint the clearest picture – and of course every airline has their own internal data that is the best source of cost information – but the public government data does suggest that that the cost performance of the 717 might leave a bit to be desired.

Either way, it will surely be interesting to see how Southwest utilizes the 717, and also how the airline considers that gauge of aircraft in the future.

Southwest wants 737-800s not more 737-700s, that would be an additional 75 seats over a 717. The 717's days are numbered.

 

[DonVerita]

<yawn>

We already knew they would be going away when the leases end. The first lease isn't up until 2017.

 

[Empennage]

<yawn>

We already knew they would be going away when the leases end. The first lease isn't up until 2017.

There it is!!!! It's the drama yawn!!!

You have to love the d-Rama!

 

[400ADude]

<yawn>

We already knew they would be going away when the leases end. The first lease isn't up until 2017.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The popcorn you're eating been pissed in. Film at 11.

 

[Ty Webb]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The popcorn you're eating been pissed in. Film at 11.

Don't make me go "Robster Craw" on you.

 

[400ADude]

Don't make me go "Robster Craw" on you.

Ha! Somebody gets it.:laugh:

Long live Rex Kramer. Danger seeker.

 

[On Your Six]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The popcorn you're eating been pissed in. Film at 11.

Yes, but you might be bumped to it after the SLI, so I would start to admire it if I were you.

Godspeed!


OYS

 

[400ADude]

Yes, but you might be bumped to it after the SLI, so I would start to admire it if I were you.

Godspeed!


OYS

You betcha!

Godspeed General!

 

[On Your Six]

You betcha!

Godspeed General!

You betcha Tanker clown!


Godspeed during your SLI. You will need it.


OYS

 

[captain caveman]

Southwest wants 737-800s not more 737-700s, that would be an additional 75 seats over a 717. The 717's days are numbered.

It's no secret that Delta wants a 100 seater and that they love used MD90s. Why not some used MD95's too?