700 pay rates in the industry...

[OCP]

All from www.airlinepilotcentral.com

5 year capt:
ASA $68
Republic (on e-170) $68
PSA $66
Eagle $70
Air Whisky no 70, but 50 rate still $64 and BAE $75
Horizon $80
Forgot to add Comair $64

Then there's Mesa and Skywest
Mesa $62
Skywest $63

Its interesting how we all call Mesa the scum of the industry.

 

[91100 100 set]

With all due respect, there is alot more to it than hourly rates.

 

[OCP]

Granted that is true on you W2. But all those credits and rigs are still based off of you pay rate.
I know the Skywest guys love to talk about their proffit sharing, but as they say current performance is no guarantee of future performance.
And if you've ever spent ANY time on the ramp in ATL you would think twice about putting your proffit sharing in the hands of those rampers.

 

[EDUC8-or]

They don't pay block or better at Mesa.

 

[flx757]

They don't at Horizon, either.

Nor do they have any 5-year CR7 CAs.

But, like has been mentioned, you have to look at the ENTIRE picture. Posting hourly rates is basically meaningless.

 

[FL990]

And if you've ever spent ANY time on the ramp in ATL you would think twice about putting your proffit sharing in the hands of those rampers.

I think the question I would have at ASA is would the profit sharing be tied to Skywest Inc or ASA directly. If skywest inc, I would be very interested in looking at that as a possiblity but if it is just tied to ASA, i would have to agree that our management is not to be trusted.

 

[Sinca3]

Ok to get a little more realistic lets look at the pay rate for the hourly rate that there are the majority of the pilots on that piece of equipment. For this example I used the hourly pay rate at ASA for year 17 on the 70 and year 7 on the 50. Atleast 1/2 the pilots on that equipment are getting paid these rates OR MORE. I also gave the min monthly gaurantee at that rate for each airline:
.................70 seat/17 yrs..................................50 seat/7 yrs
ASA.............$100/$7500......................................$65/$4875
Comair..........$92/6900.........................................$66/4950
Exjet..............no 70's.........................................$69/$5175
Skywest........$91/6825........................................$67/5025
Eagle............$95/6840.........................................$70/5040
Mesa.............$86/6536........................................$62/4712
Whisky...........no 70's...........................................$68/5100
Republic.........$97/7275........................................$68/5100
Horizon..........$117/8658......................................$78/5772
Mesaba..........No 70's..........................................$66/4950
PSA...............$89/6675........................................$66/4950
TSA..............No 70's ..........................................$66/4950

Ok now I know Skywest has the same rates for the 50 and 70. Once again, I used the hourly rate for the year at which ASA has the majority of the people on that equipment getting paid (years 17 for the 70 and year 7 for the 50). The Republic rate covers all the subsidaries. The Horizon 50 rate I used the DH400 b/c it is closest to ASA's 68 pax ATR rate which is the same as the CRJ 50 rate. I was looking for *************************s to get there rates but it isn't on the web site I used (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/)
ASA has a relatively senior group especially compared to the likes of Mesa, Rebuplic, PSA, & TSA so those airlines enjoy much lower cost since the pilots flying their equipment are at a lower hourly rate.
Talk amongst yourselves.............

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Granted that is true on you W2. But all those credits and rigs are still based off of you pay rate.
I know the Skywest guys love to talk about their proffit sharing, but as they say current performance is no guarantee of future performance.
And if you've ever spent ANY time on the ramp in ATL you would think twice about putting your proffit sharing in the hands of those rampers.

You say credits and rigs don't add up to much. Take Mesa for example. I don't think any less of their pilots, but here's where they lose a huge amount of pay. What they get on their final bid award is basically the maximum amount of pay they will receive for the month unless they pick up time on their days off. If I'm not mistaken, if they cancel any legs, they don't get paid for them so any cancellations come straight off their pay checks.

Then look at Air Wisconsin. The credit on our final bid award is the absolute minimum we will earn for the coming month. When all is said and done, I am dissapointed if my actual credit at the end of the month isn't at least 10 hours more than what I was scheduled to be paid at the beginning of the month. That's 10 free hours of pay that the Mesa guys wouldn't get. Then you think about the extra days off we have and the cancellation pay and the 2 for 1 duty rig (ie if we work 16 hours, the minimum we'll earn for the day is 8 hours of pay), and it's pretty easy to see how our contract is far superior to Mesa's. Hourly rates are just the first piece of pay in the airlines.

I don't disrespect anyone for working at Mesa. They are just working a lot harder for a lot less money than some of us. Based on their contract and pay rates, a third year Mesa F/O will probably bring home $30,000 on their W-2. In comparison, a third year F/O at Air Wisconsin can quite easily bringn home $45,000 on their W-2. That's a 50% pay difference even though the hourly rate is only $5/hr more. Food for thought.

 

[Crash Pad]

I am willing to bet the entire 50 seat fleet at ASA would happily trade there W2's for skywest W2's. I'm guessing most of the 70 fleet would also trade W2s.

 

[OCP]

You say credits and rigs don't add up to much. Take Mesa for example. I don't think any less of their pilots, but here's where they lose a huge amount of pay. What they get on their final bid award is basically the maximum amount of pay they will receive for the month unless they pick up time on their days off. If I'm not mistaken, if they cancel any legs, they don't get paid for them so any cancellations come straight off their pay checks.

Then look at Air Wisconsin. The credit on our final bid award is the absolute minimum we will earn for the coming month. When all is said and done, I am dissapointed if my actual credit at the end of the month isn't at least 10 hours more than what I was scheduled to be paid at the beginning of the month. That's 10 free hours of pay that the Mesa guys wouldn't get. Then you think about the extra days off we have and the cancellation pay and the 2 for 1 duty rig (ie if we work 16 hours, the minimum we'll earn for the day is 8 hours of pay), and it's pretty easy to see how our contract is far superior to Mesa's. Hourly rates are just the first piece of pay in the airlines.

I don't disrespect anyone for working at Mesa. They are just working a lot harder for a lot less money than some of us. Based on their contract and pay rates, a third year Mesa F/O will probably bring home $30,000 on their W-2. In comparison, a third year F/O at Air Wisconsin can quite easily bringn home $45,000 on their W-2. That's a 50% pay difference even though the hourly rate is only $5/hr more. Food for thought.

I don't know why you think I said credits and rigs don't add up to much. I know they do. What I said was that all those credits and rigs are based on your hourly rate. If you fly an hour more than your block and get paid for it, it is paid at your hourly rate. i.e. the more you make per hour the more you get paid for the credits you get at the end of the month.

What I don't like is someone with a low payrate telling me its not that bad because they make it up in credits, and that justifies it to them selves.

I think Air Whisky has got the right idea. At ASA we don't have rigs at all. We do have block or better, and under block which is if you are faster than block you get paid that on the block.

 

[OCP]

I am willing to bet the entire 50 seat fleet at ASA would happily trade there W2's for skywest W2's. I'm guessing most of the 70 fleet would also trade W2s.

Well what is a 10 year capt at each company's W2s?

 

[www.]

I am willing to bet the entire 50 seat fleet at ASA would happily trade there W2's for skywest W2's. I'm guessing most of the 70 fleet would also trade W2s.

And I'm guessing that your a putz.

W2s mean nothing if you don't look at the hours flown and paid.

 

[Sinca3]

The more I think about it the more I get pissed!! I refuse to take a pay cut while the company makes profits. I don't care if the code share partners don't like our hourly rates.....all they should care about is the cost and quality of the product we supply. If our managers can't sell our service regardless of the cost they suck at their jobs.
All DAL, CAL, NWA etc etc care about is the cost we can/could supply them our product. Don't let your managers convince you that we have to keep our cost down to be competitve. It is their job to make us competetive to the prospective clients by offering a quality product at resonable rates. Those rates are not our responsibilty to sell or even show to the client airlines. We fly the airplanes people, we have to get this through everyones heads.....and we need to get it through quick.

 

[flx757]

TheGuppyKiller, Rhoid, 410Dude, IHaveAPension, RJDC, the Guat, Freight Nazi, TheMissingLink.....:smash:

 

[ReverseSensing]

Huh? What are you talking about?

I think he might be calling you a clown, which is a nice way of putting it.

Flx is too much of a gentleman to get nasty.

 

[Sinca3]

Guppy,
I and I'm sure everyone out there disagrees with you. I'm glad you enjoy the plane your on, but liking it or not is the most ridiculous reason to justify an amount to get paid!! I doubt guys that hate flying or think flying their Saabs, ATR's, J32, Beech, is difficult are thinking they need more money b/c it is harder to fly. You get paid or should get paid a fair amount based on the income the aircraft generates or like some based solely on senority (UPS comes to mind).
If you truely think you don't deserve what you make, you are an idiot.

 

[OCP]

Guppy,
I and I'm sure everyone out there disagrees with you. I'm glad you enjoy the plane your on, but liking it or not is the most ridiculous reason to justify an amount to get paid!! I doubt guys that hate flying or think flying their Saabs, ATR's, J32, Beech, is difficult are thinking they need more money b/c it is harder to fly. You get paid or should get paid a fair amount based on the income the aircraft generates or like some based solely on senority (UPS comes to mind).
If you truely think you don't deserve what you make, you are an idiot.

Sinca, Its best not to reply to Guppy. Its just flame bait. He (it) does it all the time.

 

[maddog805]

01/01/05 - 12/31/06 SkyWest EMB Captain - lineholder.

Hours Paid - 1134:53
Hours Flown - 843.25

W-2 = $67,957.62 (incl. bonus)


=$80.59/flight hour

 

[OCP]

01/01/05 - 12/31/06 SkyWest EMB Captain - lineholder.

Hours Paid - 1134:53
Hours Flown - 843.25

W-2 = $67,957.62 (incl. bonus)


=$80.59/flight hour

What year? And thank you for posting. I don't know why, but its really hard to get people to post something as simple as what you did.

 

[jstyle13]

Dumba$$

There is more to it than just pay. You must take the quality of the aircraft flown into the equation. Sure I"d like to make more money, but I must admit that I'd fly the 170 for less than what I'm currently paid, it's that great of an aircraft.

Who gives a crap how cool the airplane is....it's just another stupid airplane. Is it so cool that you would fly it for $6.50 an hour just because it's cool?

 

[captain caveman]

Guppy's funny but right. Since our crj700 doesn't quite look as big and cool as his e170, therefore less glamorous, we should get paid more to fly it than he gets to fly the 170.

 

[penguin22]

Huh? What are you talking about?

Just call this kid Rhoid. Sometimes he wears a dress when he posts.

 

[ArcticFlier]

2005

RJ Captain lineholder

W2 $96919 (incl bonus)

Block 907
Credit 1092

$106.85 per block hour
$88.75 per credit hour

AF

 

[Sinca3]

Arctic...
The W2's I see coming from ya'lls (GA slang) side of the fence are pretty impressive. You guys seem to fly much more than us over here on this side. I would like to blame that on the company...why you should ask? Well our lines are rarely blocked over guarantee and the amount of open time we can pick up is limited at best (and awarded in senority order)
Question........what are the avg number of days off you get with 907 hrs of flying for the year and what is your senority (what year, not #)? I'm guessing it is down around min guarantee (10 or 11).
Thanks for the replies
Cheers

 

[AviatorTx]

You guys HAVE to stop focusing on hourly rates:

Example... 840 hours flown: 50 seat pay (duh)

Here at XJT as a 6th year (non-check airman) Captain I made $80,000 +/- this past year (not including per diem). Add $4,500 profit sharing check and per deim, and I almost hit $88k. It's work rules and productivity, knowing how to work the system, and getting a little over time via block or better (leg by leg). I always got at least 12 days off, and 13 days off a month 50% of the time. I did this without being an open time wh0re. I was lazy. In fact, I think I only picked up one trip the entire year. Had I busted my butt and picked up O/T, I could have easily made another 5K, yet still had at least 12 days off a month.

How many days off a month do the Mesa Captains get?

I am not figuring my company match on my 401K here either. That is a few grand more.

 

[scar1900]

How many days off a month do the Mesa Captains get?

Line holders: min. 11, average 13 to 14 (remember, mesa has 13 bids a year, so 10 days off in 13 bids is the same as 11 days off in 12 bids).

That's what I had as a junior to middle FO line holder.

 

[ex j-41]

Small Part

I think that the size of the airplane is just a smalll part of what we should
be getting paid. Who cares that you fly an airplane. For me that is the
best part of the job. Sometimes difficult or challenging but still enjoyable.
My brother a doctor enjoys his job. He still gets paid for it.
The hard part about this job is being away from home 100-200 times a year.
Your wife/girlfriend gets a flat tire and you are 2000 miles away.
You can't take your kids to soccer practice. All of these things add up to
the fact that we do not get paid enough.
The job today is just as difficult as it was 20 years ago. Look at the stats
of Atlanta in 1980 vs today. Tell me pilots don't work harder to do the same
job. Yet our pay is on a steady decrease. WTF?
We need to all get paid like UPS. Who cares what airplane we fly?
We would pick an airplane based on schedule. It would make it much harder
for management and ALPA to screw pilots by putting more RJ's on
property.

 

[OCP]

As I sort of inadvertently called Skywest "scum" I will say that no I don't lump them in, or any where near, the same class as Mesa.
I realise that their quality of life and pay is worlds bettter. What I meant was that their pay rate is close to the bottom of the industry. Yeah I know work ruels etc make a pay check. But what your boss Jerry is tell us is that we NEED to take a pay cut to be more cost effective. Has he offered us ANYTHING in the Skywest work rules? No. Not one single thing that you enjoy has been offered. He has told us that we will shrink if we don't take pay cuts. Skywest has set a bunchmark that everyone looks to for pay rates now. Especially for 70+ seat flying, which is the future. Why aren't you more angry about that? Your company lied to you about bringing the rates back up. Comair's pay rate is now set as Skywest +1%
When I said what I said I meant that Skywest cometes directly with Mesa, though they offer a much better product.

 

[filejw]

How about NWA Sjet rates..$66.41 yr 1CA ,$85.01 yr 12CA,$99.73 yr 18CA..75 hr guaranty .If i read it right thats from 50 to 76 seats.Plus a 1 to 1.75 % pay raise each yr of the deal....60/40 on on if it passes.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Arctic...
Question........what are the avg number of days off you get with 907 hrs of flying for the year and what is your senority (what year, not #)? I'm guessing it is down around min guarantee (10 or 11).
Thanks for the replies
Cheers

14 days off for March, and that's the high end of average. My average for last year was 13 and-some-change.......

Open time is something I don't mess with. First come first serve and I just don't waste my time. With PBS, I can fly as much (within reason) or as little as I want given my seniority in FAT, so I don't have a problem with company built, anemic lines.


C Y'all,


AF


RIP Paul Dana
http://www.indyracing.com/