70 buck a barrel oil matched by rising airfares...talk of rationing.

[FN FAL]

The fat cat station owners are going to keep gouging us at the gas pumps. I hate these gas prices.

Have you ever thought of pumping Ethel, the gas station owner's daughter? That'll teach him/her.

 

[jetflyer]

It's also NOT an oil crisis. It is an ENERGY crisis. Oil is a problem, but it is
one of MANY problem that need to be dealt with.

Drilled oil is becoming more expensive to extract, PERIOD. The easy oil is gone.

It's guys like you that make me happy. You've got it all figured out and you make people feel warm and fuzzy inside. I like that.

That Department of Energy retard Peak Oil Nut from the U.S. government that would disagree with you doesn't know what's going on.
http://www.tomudall.house.gov/pdf/PeakOilHearingHirschtestimony120705.pdf

I'm glad the world has people like you Crimson that are smarter than the dumbdumbs.

Sorry gotta split out for a ride in my new Hummer!
Jet

 

[Frac Daddy]

Only one word comes to mind:

BIODIESEL When can we start fueling turbines with this stuff?

Researchers at the University of North Dakota are already testing the stuff. 100% biodiesel jetfuel with the cold weather properties of petrol-based fuel. They claim they can make it cheaper the petrol Jet A. We'll see.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/13948062.htm

 

[USMCmech]

Only one word comes to mind:

BIODIESEL When can we start fueling turbines with this stuff?

Biodiesel is 90% regular deiesel with 10% highly refined vegetable oil (roughly).

Resulting in a 10% reduction in fossil fuel consumption, right?

Not quite, those soybeans had to be grown by farmers useing diesel tractors. Then refined by plants that get their electricty for coal burning power plants. After you figure in the production energy costs, it's a wash.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Have you ever thought of pumping Ethel, the gas station owner's daughter? That'll teach him/her.

Yeah, but she's cheaper to pump.

CE

 

[mcjohn]

Biodiesel is 90% regular deiesel with 10% highly refined vegetable oil (roughly).

No, I don't think so. You're referring to the typical fuel that contains ethanol at those cheap gas stations.....Racetrack.....Hotspot....etc. The pumps have a sticker on them that say CONTAINS ETHANOL.

I think biodiesel has a much higher percentage of the veggie oil in it.

 

[woofer_77]

Normal biodiesel fuel is 20% bio/80% regular. You can use it all the way up to 100% though. Here's an interesting site if you're interested:
http://www.biodiesel.org/

As far as whether oil is renewable or not, if we reduce demand by reducing consumption, we will reduce the price of oil. So therefore, IMHO using less oil is a good thing. Also, if we use sources like biodiesel, the CO2 we put in the air will equal the CO2 we take out of it when growing the crops.

 

[USMCmech]

Normal biodiesel fuel is 20% bio/80% regular. You can use it all the way up to 100% though.

I stand corrected, but my point is still valid. At best you are getting a very small reduction in fossil fuel consumption.

What would 100% biofuel retail at the pump for?



Bigger question, where are we supposed to grow all these soybeans? Farmland has been disapearing the US for the last century, and there are 6 billion hungery people in on this planet.


In a nutshell, we will keep burining oil and fossil fuels untill they become too expensive to continue useing. Then we will have to find a new source of energy, especially for transportation. Nuclear power is really the only viable prospect.

Right now nuclear powerplants are too expensive to use unless there is no other option (submarines, ect), while everything else burns oil. I belive the situation will be reversed over the next century. All large transportation vehicles (trains & ships) will be nuclear powered, while cars and other smaller vehicles will run off electricity.

I have no clue what will happen to airplanes. Maybe somebody will figure out how to make engines that burn hydrogen?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060224.html

 

[big_al]

farmland is going because its cheaper for companies to grow the produce in 3rd world slave labor nations and ship it here.

but unless governments get serious and stop pandering to big oil and energy concerns, it will be too late once the prices skyrocket

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

I stand corrected, but my point is still valid. At best you are getting a very small reduction in fossil fuel consumption.

What would 100% biofuel retail at the pump for?



Bigger question, where are we supposed to grow all these soybeans? Farmland has been disapearing the US for the last century, and there are 6 billion hungery people in on this planet.


In a nutshell, we will keep burining oil and fossil fuels untill they become too expensive to continue useing. Then we will have to find a new source of energy, especially for transportation. Nuclear power is really the only viable prospect.

Right now nuclear powerplants are too expensive to use unless there is no other option (submarines, ect), while everything else burns oil. I belive the situation will be reversed over the next century. All large transportation vehicles (trains & ships) will be nuclear powered, while cars and other smaller vehicles will run off electricity.

I have no clue what will happen to airplanes. Maybe somebody will figure out how to make engines that burn hydrogen?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060224.html

The difference between a surplus and a crisis shortage can be as little as
5%. a 10% reduction could be helpful.

BioDiesel in California runs about $5.00-$5.50/gal. But cars specifically
designed for it can get well over 100mpg (I've see modern VW's get
250mpg on biodiesel) so the price is more than worth it.

The USA actually has excess capacity. Using it for fuel is a great idea for
job retention and can easily be converted back to food production in event
of crisis.

I would like to see more info on "clean" burning coal plants. Coal has a huge
supply, but I am still worried on pollution.

Nukes should be built. Alot of them. New tech like fast neutron reactors
could easily use or 'burn' waste uranium/plutonium from normal slow neutron
reactors. At present consumption of waste, it would take well over 100
years to exhaust uranium waste fuel inventories (and clean out waste).

Trains and ships with nukes? I can only hope it's a non-fission reactor...

Frak Daddy's link shows experiments of bio-diesel in Jet-A situations. Keep
in mind, there many factors, like mixing Jet-A with Bio, effects of Prist,
deposits, filters, etc. My lack of faith with the certification of alternative
fuels is due to the no lead Av-Gas debacle. Were still waiting for that one.

As for hydrogen, don't expect it for aviation anytime soon. The power
density is still too low.

CE

P.S. BioDiesel is not necessarily a 20%/80% mix. It (supposedly) can be mixed at
any level. If true, it would be a wonderful supplement and be used to hedge either
fuel as market value demands.

 

[IronWalt]

No we are not. I am buying a still this week and am going to start making my own fuel from grain. Screw the oil companies. I am not going to wait for them to build more refining capacity or discover new reserves. We are NEVER POWERLESS

Step 1:

We admitted we were powerless over <oil>; that our lives had become unmanageable.

Only 11 more steps to go!!!! :beer:

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

No we are not. I am buying a still this week and am going to start making my own fuel from grain. Screw the oil companies. I am not going to wait for them to build more refining capacity or discover new reserves. We are NEVER POWERLESS

So, you're making fuel for people?

It'll only taste like Jet-A :beer:

CE

 

[IronWalt]

So, you're making fuel for people?

It'll only taste like Jet-A

Hehehehehehe,

I can't wait to experiment with this. A friend of mine is a chef at a local italian resturant. And we are going to try several recipies. One with feed grain purchased from the local feed stores. And another with left over pasta. Which is made from flour, Same stuff, different form.

The bottom line is that I am a car lover and refuse to give up my V-8 engines so that I can putz around in a Toyota Prius.

 

[jetflyer]

Sorry to bring this thread back to life.

$69.00/barrel for Light Sweet Crude
My expert analysis:It will be on its way back to $20.00 any day now.

The 700 CLUB with Pat Robertson just had the first of a series of discussions on peak oil. Matthew Simmons, friend of Bush and Cheney, and Republican Congressman from Maryland Roscoe Bartlett were on there discussing coming peak oil and saying we're going to have to live with less oil year after year soon.

They're emphasizing that we hurry our transition to alternative energy sources.

Totally unnecessary.

THE CRAZIES ARE GOING MAD!!! Don't they know we have an infinite amount of oil that is replenished from the center of the Earth??! Scaremongerers!!!

Jet

 

[eggman76]

Hehehehehehe,

I can't wait to experiment with this. A friend of mine is a chef at a local italian resturant. And we are going to try several recipies. One with feed grain purchased from the local feed stores. And another with left over pasta. Which is made from flour, Same stuff, different form.

The bottom line is that I am a car lover and refuse to give up my V-8 engines so that I can putz around in a Toyota Prius.

Might want to check with the BATF on this grand plan. Oh and the EPA, the IRS, and DOT. One other little problem, no factory V8 will run on straight alcohol.

Scratch that anyway - your plan is not even close to being economically viable. You know how much heat it takes to run a still? What are you going to do with the DG's that are left over from your still? Also, don't drink any of the liquor you make from flour, it will have some methanol in it and you will suffer some nasty side effects like blindness. Good luck - don't blow yourself and your neighbors up.


Eggman

 

[mzaharis]

No we are not. I am buying a still this week and am going to start making my own fuel from grain. Screw the oil companies. I am not going to wait for them to build more refining capacity or discover new reserves. We are NEVER POWERLESS

You know, I was trying to mimic the Alcoholics Anonymous 12 step program - don't quite know how they'd feel about distilling!!!! :laugh:

Oh well, as long as it ends up in the fuel tank!!! Good luck, and be safe!

 

[LowCarb]

12

Mzaharris

 

[LowCarb]

12 Step Program

Mzaharris-I got that and it WAS funny! I'm a small time oil investor and I'm tellin ya'll that if I could pump it out of the ground any faster, I would...I sure as heck wouldn't leave it in there...it helps pay my mortgage!
The business (the oil and gas business) today is WAY different than it was 50 years ago, the old timers have told me, who've been around and wached the US oil scene go from boom to bust. Sure, technology has improved a lot, but it's WAY harder to get the stuff out of the ground when you do find it. Use to be you could just poke a hole in the ground, stand back and get out of the way cause the reservour pressure was just so great...
Nowadays you have to sweet talk the black goo with carbon dioxide, water or gas injection just to motivate it. It's a COMPLICATED and hideously EXPENSIVE process. There's nothing more frustrating than investing tens of thousands of dollars into a drilling project and then having to wait as the stuff trickles out ...slowly, oh, so slowly!! (except maybee investing 50 grand and years of eating only Top Ramen to get that precious 23K a year RJ Job!)
This morning, I'm headed down from Wisconsin to a little town in East Texas called New London, where my dad was raised. At one time, they had so much oil comming out of the ground that their school district was the richest in the country...now, its almost a ghost town, population 491 or some such number.

 

[jetflyer]

....I'm tellin ya'll that if I could pump it out of the ground any faster, I would...I sure as heck wouldn't leave it in there...it helps pay my mortgage!
The business (the oil and gas business) today is WAY different than it was 50 years ago, the old timers have told me, who've been around and wached the US oil scene go from boom to bust. Sure, technology has improved a lot, but it's WAY harder to get the stuff out of the ground when you do find it. Use to be you could just poke a hole in the ground, stand back and get out of the way cause the reservour pressure was just so great...
Nowadays you have to sweet talk the black goo with carbon dioxide, water or gas injection just to motivate it. It's a COMPLICATED and hideously EXPENSIVE process. There's nothing more frustrating than investing tens of thousands of dollars into a drilling project and then having to wait as the stuff trickles out ...slowly, oh, so slowly!! .........

Lowcarb,
You described what the Crazies would say is the problem of PEAK OIL of an oil field. The pressure is great at first then declines and you then have to inject carbon dioxide, gas, or water to raise the reservoir pressures and you still get less and less out each year.

The crazies that believe in Peak oil say that since the U.S. went from pumping 9.6 million barrels a day in 1970 to 5.4 million barrels a day today that the U.S. passed its peak oil in 1970.

From: http://www.energybulletin.net/primer.php

Of the 65 largest oil producing countries in the world, up to 54 have past their peak of production and are now in decline, including the USA (in 1970/71) and the North Sea (in 2001).

Scaremongerers!! NOT TRUE! They're intentionally holding back oil to raise the price

I think those fields that have lost their reservoir pressure in Texas and all over the world will soon replenish themselves from the oil created in the center of the Earth

Other GIANT OIL FIELDS that will soon replenish themselves include these great oil fields from our past that have gone into decline:
Oseberg
Brent
Gullfaks
Prudhoe
Slaughter
Romashkino
Forties
Samotior
North Sea

Two recently added to the decline list:
Burgan of Kuwait in March 2005
Cantarell of Mexico sometime in 2005 according to Mexico

An oilfield none of us want to see go into decline but many say is very close:
Ghawar of Saudi Arabia where over half their oil comes from and 5-6% of the world's oil.

My not so expert opinion:$20.00/ barrel oil will be back any day now......
Can you imagine how good our airlines are going to do when oil gets back to $20.00/barrel!!?? I can't wait! The good ole days of 89Cent/gallon gasoline will be back any day now!

Jet

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Present price of light sweet crude. $69/barrel

que $20/barrel in 3...2...1...now......no no...NOW... no, I mean NOW!.

If you watch the show "Mind of Mencia" you'll recognise this quote:

DUR DI-DUR!!!

CE

 

[molson247]

uhh Jet, wasn't it no more then 2 months ago or so that you we're all into the Peak oil theory and the world was doomed?? What's up?

 

[jetflyer]

Molson,

I was brainwashed by the crazies that preach their peak oil bunk. I learned recently that oil is made in the center of the earth(Abiotic oil theory). I just bought me a HUMMER!!

The claim that 54 out of 65 of the world's largest oil producers have passed their Peak Oil is completely CRAZY and unfounded because those countries' oil fields will be replenished with the oil from the center of the earth any day now!!

Sites like this one below that introduce people to the Peak Oil religious Mumbo Jumbo should be shut down by deeeeeee guv-a-mint:
http://www.energybulletin.net/primer.php

There will never be an oil crisis. The oil countries of the world are claiming that they are "PUMPING FULL TILT". Mumbo Jumbo!! I have a hunch they're lying. Once the global economy starts to get bad, the oil producing countries of the world will all at once say, "HAH, HAD YA GOING!! lol, here's your precious oil!"

It's also just a matter of time before the oil fields start to refill. My sources deep inside the earth are telling me it will be real soon. Flightinfo member "Lowcarb" will be insanely happy when his oil fields start to refill with new oil!!

Don't Worry, Be Happy!! Life is Good. Nothing will ever change!!

Except: Oil will be $20.00 any day now!! From Crimson: "DUR DI-DUR!!!"

:nuts::laugh:

Jet

 

[cynic]

Congrats jetflyer, you are the first to make it on my ignore list.

 

[LowCarb]

jetflyer- you know, I've been kinda down lately with oil comming out so slowly and bills to pay....but now with my newfound knowledge about oil "replentishing itself from the center of the earth", I'm starting to get downright giddy...I'm calling my wife first thing tomorrow morning and telling her that I'm on the fast track to "insanely happy"!!! She'll be thrilled!!

 

[jetflyer]

Lol Lowcarb,

I'm glad to be the one to tell you the good news! Plus when you become a multi-multi-millionaire don't forget those like me that helped ya get there k? Plus there's no happiness like "insane happiness".

Now go enjoy a beer!:beer:

Jet

 

[Dangerkitty]

Lol Lowcarb,

I'm glad to be the one to tell you the good news! Plus when you become a multi-multi-millionaire don't forget those like me that helped ya get there k? Plus there's no happiness like "insane happiness".

Now go enjoy a beer!:beer:

Jet

Dude,

You have freaking lost it. Please shut the f up.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I'll tell U exactly who's fault it is. The leader of our country is in charge, and he is there to lead us, which means working to solve the big problems to the best of his ability.

Nixon and Carter did something.

Ford, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush did absolutely nothing. They are at fault.

GW Bush can save himself by getting off his a$$ and doing something about Oil now, but it'll be pretty tough for him at the rate things are going for his administration.

Unfortunately, until we have a new President, Congress is best choice to do something. I don't see them doing anything.

I think WalMart is the answer. If WalMart demands highly efficient vehicles, they will get them, which will spillover to the general public. I'm going to try that tactic.

Cliff
YIP

 

[FN FAL]

Dude,

You have freaking lost it. Please shut the f up.

If this change in Jetflyr is not a pun, it almost reminds me when this born again, HT1 Salter. He was a diver from my unit that fell off the wagon, got divorced and started nailing hookers and gambling. It was so unsettling, it actually freaked out the whole crew. We had long accepted him as the boat Baptist...it made the boat complete, just like on the movie/tv show MASH. Everybody played their part.

Then, when Salter busted his move, lookout...you didn't know what to think.

Moral of the story? I don't know about jetflyr, but If I remember correctly, I think Salter married one of those catalogue brides from the Philipines and got all straight laced, then when he found out he was just a mark...he tipped over.

 

[A Squared]

Ummm, folks. I thought it was rather obvious, but it appears that some hadn't caught it. Jetflyer is employing the literary device known as irony. Heavyhanded maybe, perhaps even a little annoying, but irony, nonetheless. That's right folks, he doesn't really *mean* what he's saying, and that's apparently sailing right over several heads.

 

[FN FAL]

Ummm, folks. I thought it was rather obvious, but it appears that some hadn't caught it. Jetflyer is employing the literary device known as irony. Heavyhanded maybe, perhaps even a little annoying, but irony, nonetheless. That's right folks, he doesn't really *mean* what he's saying, and that's apparently sailing right over several heads.

So...you're saying jetflyer isn't just another mark? Because I don't want to see him tip over.