7 to 10 737's at FREEDUM

[Heavy Set]

Theinsider,

Why don't we just outsource the pilot jobs to Indian pilots who would love to fly the airplanes for $10 an hour?

Sure, that can't and won't happen, but do you get my point? Let's keep on lowering the bar more and more and then any "good" wages will be gone for the industry. Flying will become more of a commodity job. How many people spend tens of thousands of dollars learning and qualifying for airline pilot positions and then end up with a serious debt problem because they don't earn enough? Not everyone is military trained - especially those pilots flying for MESA (many have unfortunately paid for their expensive training).

Ornstein, by the way, loves to hear your justifications. Keep on adding fuel to the fire...

 

[100LL... Again!]

Here's the problem -

Suppose I was furloughed.

Suppose I needed to get current again.

Suppose they hire me, and I fly for them lg nough to quit and o get a better job.

Why not?

Should I let some PFT'er come in and take the job, and let them get ahead of me after paying my dues al these years?

We can shake our tiny fist at the rain and the tide all we like, but supply and demand are elemental forces of human nature.

There will lways be SOMEONE who will take the job.

Let's look at this race to the bottom:

Suppose Mesa offers pilots $12/hr for 737 CA and $8/hr for FO's.

How many takers would we see? Only low timers or people in need of some quick jet time.

The race can only go so far. It will go until the laws of supply and demand are satisfied.

Before Deregulation, an artificial constraint existed in the market- a limited number of airlines could compete for flying. This meant that the airline's pilot groups had more leverage in negotiations. There were no RJ's, and nothing like the current CMR/DAL scenario.

The floodgates have been opened. I don't like it either. We must FACE THE FACT that the enemy is not who we think it is.

We keep blaming the pilots who willeing to work for Mesa wages.

If you had 500hrs and could go fly a turbine aircraft, wouldn't you? Especially if the rest of the industry looked so bleak? At least you would be logging time until things picked up and you could move on to a better job.

 

[mesa rocks]

Here's the problem -

Suppose I was furloughed.

Suppose I needed to get current again.

Suppose they hire me, and I fly for them lg nough to quit and o get a better job.

Why not?

Should I let some PFT'er come in and take the job, and let them get ahead of me after paying my dues al these years?

We can shake our tiny fist at the rain and the tide all we like, but supply and demand are elemental forces of human nature.

There will lways be SOMEONE who will take the job.

Let's look at this race to the bottom:

Suppose Mesa offers pilots $12/hr for 737 CA and $8/hr for FO's.

How many takers would we see? Only low timers or people in need of some quick jet time.

The race can only go so far. It will go until the laws of supply and demand are satisfied.

Before Deregulation, an artificial constraint existed in the market- a limited number of airlines could compete for flying. This meant that the airline's pilot groups had more leverage in negotiations. There were no RJ's, and nothing like the current CMR/DAL scenario.

The floodgates have been opened. I don't like it either. We must FACE THE FACT that the enemy is not who we think it is.

We keep blaming the pilots who willeing to work for Mesa wages.

If you had 500hrs and could go fly a turbine aircraft, wouldn't you? Especially if the rest of the industry looked so bleak? At least you would be logging time until things picked up and you could move on to a better job.

I think you hit the nail on the head. You can't beat the forces of the market (especially in todays environment) you can only hope to slow it.

It is now easier for the average Joe to become an airline pilot. And there are plenty of flight schools out there willing to take students money. And plenty of students out there willing to sacrifice to get their "perceived" peace of the pie.

supply and demand. It sucks. but thats how it works. don't know if there is an answer.

but don't let this bit of logic get in the way of some more anonymous slamming, flaming, my dad could beat up your dad, chat board bashing!!

 

[AirBoard]

So let me see if I get this straight.

USairway pilot furloughed out of the 737 making 100K+. Works at Home Depot, then gets called back to fly the same 737 under J4J within the Freedom cert. for ~30K.

I'm going to get my real estate license because this is getting ridiculous!!!

 

[Stinkbug]

~30K?

30K? Where do you get that number from? The rates haven't been negotiated. All of you guys need to chill out and see what happens; quit armchair quarterbacking this issue.

 

[Mongolikecandy]

I think you hit the nail on the head. You can't beat the forces of the market (especially in todays environment) you can only hope to slow it.

What the hell has the Mesa pilot group done to slow it? If anything you've given it a giant push downhill.

 

[Soulfly]

Gentleman,

As a Mesa Pilot (voted no, by the way) the problem at Mesa is a total and complete lack of unity amongst the pilot group.

This is being sustained by a large number of domiciles (20+), management that has denied ALPA releases, and a need for an MEC and LEC shakeup.


Anyone with any good suggestions?

I've had enough for a lifetime......

 

[mesa rocks]

What the hell has the Mesa pilot group done to slow it? If anything you've given it a giant push downhill.

how about stopping the persistent whip saw of the mesa pilots with all manner techniques like buying CCAir, creating freedom etc.. By securing some scope language. Gathering all of that flying under one group and one voice. Stopped the creation of a non union freedom (where no pilot would have even had the chance of a collective voice). Put hundreds of CCair pilots back to work after there jobs were threatened and eventually eliminated by the whipsaw at work.

All the while, actually "improving" a very ugly contract. Not saying it was what we all wanted, but we had a list of a million things that needed to be done. I think we did OK considering the circumstances we were in.

Of course I will expect to here about a million anonymous bashing replies from plenty of you armchair quarterbacks that think that the economics of this industry does not apply to them or their pilot group.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Or how about not working there.

PS: Stalin created plenty of jobs too ... in cold places. Doesn't make him an admirable businessman.