61.93 cross country endorsements

[VNugget]

So after the 15th time reading through this jumbled mess, I think I'm finally starting to make sense of it. So let me summarize it here and please tell me if I have it straight.

There are 3 possible sets of distances from the origina airport for a student solo X/C: Under 25 miles, between 25 and 50 miles, and over 50 miles.

61.93(b)(1): Under 25 miles: The student needs training for that specific airport, and a logbook endorsement. The flight can be repeated without further endorsements.

(b)(2): Between 25 and 50 miles: The student needs training for that specific airport, a logbook endorsement, and the one-time certificate endorsement in (c). The flight can be repeated without further endorsement.

(c): Over 50 miles: The studnet does NOT (??) need training for that specific airport, and he needs the certificate and logbook endorsements. The flight can not be repeated unless the logbook is endorsed for each specific time.

That's the best I could make of it, and it really seems odd that for the longer flight (over 50) you don't need training for that specific airport and route. Am I going wrong somewhere?


On a side note, I remember a reg that everyone is reponsible for understanding the priviliges and limits of their certificate, but can't find it right now. Anyone know?

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's not that odd if you think about the differences between them. Remember that the section talks about "certain solo flights and cross-country flights." While they are all "cross countries" in the sense of point to point, they are treated differently.

The 61.93(b)(1) authorization "to make solo flights from the airport where the student pilot normally receives training to another location" contemplates a pilot who lives near an airport, perhaps owns her own airplane and flies to another airport for training. In addition to a solo endorsement (not a solo cross country endorsement), the CFI can authorize the student to fly from "home" to the training airport and back again.

The 61.93(b)(2) authorization to make "Repeated specific solo cross-country flights may be made to another airport that is within 50 nautical miles of the airport from which the flight originated" is the authorization to use another airport for training. For example, if you are training at a non-towered airport, you might endorse a student to fly "repeatedly" to a nearby towered one. Or vice versa. Again, this is in addition to the solo endorsement, not the solo cross country endorsement.

The key to the why the (b)(1) and (b)(2) endorsements require specific training and the "normal" cross country does not is in 61.93(a):

==============================
(a) General.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, a student pilot must meet the requirements of this section before -
==============================

In other words, these two special endorsements do =not= require that the CFI cover solo cross country tasks in general. The FAA doesn't want student pilots without cross country training to be searching for airports on their own.

On a side note, I remember a reg that everyone is reponsible for understanding the priviliges and limits of their certificate, but can't find it right now. Anyone know?

I don't think there's an independent reg that says that a pilot has to obey the rules.

 

[nosehair]

Under 25: A student's "local area" is a 25 nm ring around the airport. He only needs an endorsement to land at an airport within 25 nm.
Over 25, he is leaving the "local area" and must have the x/c training in 61.93(e).
Over 25 but less than 50, he can get the endorsement because he's had the x/c training, and less than 50 can be repeated unsupervised trips without the individual endorsement for that trip.

As far as knowing the privileleges and limitations, look at 61.87(b)(1)(i)&(ii).
A pre-solo test should demonstate a resposible level of this knowledge.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Under 25: A student's "local area" is a 25 nm ring around the airport. He only needs an endorsement to land at an airport within 25 nm.
Over 25, he is leaving the "local area" and must have the x/c training in 61.93(e).
Over 25 but less than 50, he can get the endorsement because he's had the x/c training, and less than 50 can be repeated unsupervised trips without the individual endorsement for that trip.

You are correct. The 61.93(b)(2) endorsement =does= require the regular cross country solo training and endorsement.

 

[nosehair]

Dear nosehair,

midlifeflyer has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to
entitled - 61.93 cross country endorsements - in the FARs forum of
Flightinfo.com Hangar.

This thread is located at:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=83933&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
I'm curious where you see the requirement for the 61.93(e) training in
order to get the 61.93(b)(2) endorsement. All I can find is the
language at the beginning of the section that the (b) endorsements are
exempted from them.
***************

Mark, the above was in my email, but I don't see it posted here.

Look at the last paragraph of (b)(2)(iv) The student has current solo cross-country endorsements in accordance with paragraph (c) of this section.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Mark, the above was in my email, but I don't see it posted here.

That's weird. I wrote that message and thought I changed it to the one above, where, after realizing you probably knew what you were talking about, I re-read the reg.