50k entry level pay

[LowlyPropCapt]

Before the advent of science, what could not be readily understood or explained was primarily attributed to a higher being or god. What humans did not understand, they sought and found meaning through the concept of religion and a god.

Along came science debunking much of what religion put forth, through empirical evidence.

Religion basically provides a guideline for those who wish to live their lives within a span of subscribed values and virtues. Each religion sets forth ways to live your life in a particular way so as to make it to heaven or the equivalent.

Religion, penal law and morality all essentially provide similar deterents to a potentially destructive lifestyle.

Humans by nature are animals and have many selfish animal instincts. These psychologically animal-like instincts do not translate well to a human society.

Laws, religion and morality force us to reject or contain our feelings and temptations. Whether it be to murder, harm, steal, covet, etc. - society needed to come up with plausible lines of defense against destructive human desires.

If one "puts the fear of god" in a child, this child will believe that nothing he does goes unnoticed. Hopefully, it will help refrain this child from doing something harmful to himself or others. This works well when they believe that they will be destined for a place called hell in lieu of a paradise. And this will be for ever and ever. So make your time on earth productive and morally right, otherwise you will have a terrible afterlife. Every religion preaches this or something similar.

Laws can be circumvented, morals can be faked, but if their is a god who sees all and keeps a ledger of who did what, it tells us that we must live a life of piety if god will judge us one day.

Great post. I am not sure if you and I would agree on theology, but I for one appreciate your well thought out response.

To amplify what you said, I think what a lot of folks who take the Bible literally lack is a sense of context... That is to say that they lack a sense of the audience for him the various accounts were written and the era in which they were put down.

Much of the first five books of the Bible (the Pentatuech) are based on oral traditions going back thousands of years... Back to the first urban societies of Mesopotamia. To take these accounts and ascribe them to modern life with no interpretation or sense of context is just as foolish as telling a "God Believer" that there is no chance whatsoever that God exists. Neither science or religion have a monopoly on the answers, and science and religion are not necessarlily mutually exclusive.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Much of the first five books of the Bible (the Pentatuech) are based on oral traditions going back thousands of years... Back to the first urban societies of Mesopotamia. To take these accounts and ascribe them to modern life with no interpretation or sense of context is just as foolish as telling a "God Believer" that there is no chance whatsoever that God exists. Neither science or religion have a monopoly on the answers, and science and religion are not necessarlily mutually exclusive.

Good point. I meant to include this as well. The bible is a book full of hearsay written thousands of years ago - all derived from prior anecdotes that occured a long time before the good book was even written or documented.

Truth be told, this world full of established religions doesn't welcome new religions. They're looked upon very suspiciously by the two or three dominant ones.

David Koresh could have been the next jesus. Modern society and the government didn't want that. They label "start-up" religions as cults.

Well that's how most religions started years ago. They were all cults to a degree. They all contain mystical beliefs and promises to their belivers.

Scientology is now considered a religion and has tax exempt status just as the catholic church does.

 

[unreal]

As usual with the darwinists, you haven't answered the man's question. Where did matter come from? If not from God, then how did basic matter itself come into existence to eventually "evolve?"

Big bang? Buddha? Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Hell, I dunno. Many people may think they have the answer cold, but in fact nobody really knows how exactly we came into existence. Some people use religion to help explain it, but remember, faith alone is not proof. In order to actually prove something you need empirical evidence, and I have yet to see one creationist give me any.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Religion is power. You can build a strong army and solidarity on the backs of religious believers. The more members the more you can dominate and control. Religion is a tool and a dynamic one at that.

Missionaires attemp to recruit into their religion by canvasing poor or underveloped areas and countries. They seek the vulnerable and prey on the weak.

You might also notice that a majority of the truly religious are poor in contrast to those who have more well-being in life. The lower classes of society tend to be more religous than those of the upper class.

For these souls, religion is almost a last means to make ends meet. When one can't suvive or cope on their own, they need to turn to a higher being who can help guide them towards their destiny. Life is out of thier hands. They can't manage to procure or achieve certain things, so they rely on a god to worship who will bring them such bounty and treasures. They belive that if they pray enough and attend church that all of the things out of thier control will be favored upon them.

Think about it. When you've exhausted all your options and are in dire need of some miracle - you pray.

We all have said a prayer when things were really tough as we had no where else to turn.

Religion is for the weak-minded.

For the record, I was raised catholic and attended sunday school and church for many years as a youth. I was baptized, had communion, took a name, etc. Everything that was required I did, but only because my parents took me church.

See, if they gave me up at birht and I was adpoted by some Hindu couple, I would be Hindu.

Religion is arbitrarily assigned based upon what family brought you into the world.

 

[zasca]

Ha! this has sprawled into a new topic quick. Unfortunately no agitators have chimed in. Most likely because we are all being too reasonable and level headed... Where's that Westboro(?) baptist church when you need them for once? I'd be happy to make 'em martyrs...

I kid, I kid

 

[time builder]

I have to wave the BS flag. If these are entry level jobs, they represent the extreme upper limit. Michigna is one of the top pay states for teachers in the country. In Oakland county, the wealthiest county in Michigan, starting HS teacher 33K, a little less than the starting pay for a USA Jet DA-20 F/O at age 20 with no college dept.

Are you really saying that your F/O's are entry level?
What? They didn't have any on the job flying experience before hand?

I figure you meant this as consolation to pilots who feel they should be paid more, but really, if I were one of your F/O's I'd feel insulted.

If USA jet is an "entry level" pilot job, it too represents the extreme upper limit, not the $20K/year or less entry level standard I've seen in this profession.

 

[msw]

Why don't I seee Flight Instructors on that list?

 

[PositionandHold]

As usual with the darwinists, you haven't answered the man's question. Where did matter come from? If not from God, then how did basic matter itself come into existence to eventually "evolve?"

How did God come to be? He just....did?

You're right. That makes a lot more sense than evolution.

 

[Blade Runner]

If you believe God is the sole creator of man then why in the name of common sense would you refuse the concept of God creating evolution and the physical nature of our universe.

When God said "Let there be light" you better believe there was a Big Bang!!!

 

[Flyprdu]

On the 7th day, God rested and said, "Let ye pilots earn a respectable and decent wage."
--Genesis 1:7

 

[unreal]

On the 7th day, God rested and said, "Let ye pilots earn a respectable and decent wage."
--Genesis 1:7

Now that's a religion I'll get out of bed on sunday morning for.

 

[Herman Bloom]

As usual with the darwinists, you haven't answered the man's question. Where did matter come from? If not from God, then how did basic matter itself come into existence to eventually "evolve?"

Actually, you might find that many (if not most) scientists -- even "evoluntion"/biological/genetic/etc. scientists -- believe in a higher power. They are smart enough to realize that the two are not mutually exclusive; that, in fact, the "theory" of evolution (for the record: no more a "theory" than is gravity) suggests an elegance beyond human reach. And many have addressed this issue of the origin of matter as the "starting point" where spirituality must play some role (Einstien among them).

I suspect your problem is that these scientists do not happen to believe exactly as you do. That is the problem with fundamentalism (of any flavor): it discounts other viewpoints automatically and without reason. Fundamentalists are dangerous, regardless of which "religion" they represent.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Actually, you might find that many (if not most) scientists -- even "evoluntion"/biological/genetic/etc. scientists -- believe in a higher power. They are smart enough to realize that the two are not mutually exclusive; that, in fact, the "theory" of evolution (for the record: no more a "theory" than is gravity) suggests an elegance beyond human reach. And many have addressed this issue of the origin of matter as the "starting point" where spirituality must play some role (Einstien among them).

I suspect your problem is that these scientists do not happen to believe exactly as you do. That is the problem with fundamentalism (of any flavor): it discounts other viewpoints automatically and without reason. Fundamentalists are dangerous, regardless of which "religion" they represent.

Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project is a believer. I find that interesting, since that is the science of defining the basis for human (indeed all) life.

Isn't NOT believing in God a religion in and of itself. People who ardently believe in only in science in a basis for life are scientific fundementalists, aren't they?

 

[CA1900]

WWFSMD?

 

[time builder]

Care to make your response public, YIP?

500TT mins allows you the privledge of calling USA Jet an "entry level" pilot job? I might agree with you calling it an "entry level airline job," but not entry level to this profession.

Again Yip, you don't hire people without previous on the job flying experience (at least not yet), and your minimums are still double the legal amount required for the position.

Not only that, but your buddy Cliff is bragging about all the Mesa F/O's you're getting, are they "entry level" too? I know you've responded to the contrary to me personally, but I'd like you to clarify the picture of the kind of people you're hiring. To paint the picture of an uneducated blue collar worker getting their dream shot at a shiny DC9, I feel is a little over the top.

You're a smart guy YIP, don't let me sound like I'm doubting that, but I think your previous post was arrogant and hypocritical to "wave the BS flag" on an article like this, and then turn around and use the same tactics to promote your own airline.

USA jet looks like a sweet gig, going from 500TT into a jet and eventually into a DC9 is enough to spark the SJS in plenty of people. You don't have to imbellish the truth, or manipulate people into thinking they're worth less to sell an opportunity like that.

If anything, I think your arguments that people should accept what they're paid (and not overinflate their self worth) are repulsive to applicants in the current hiring market, and you should stick to your argument of paying more than your competitors.

 

[J.Otto]

God has left the building.

 

[pilotyip]

starting pay?

Care to make your response public, YIP?

You're a smart guy YIP, don't let me sound like I'm doubting that, but I think your previous post was arrogant and hypocritical to "wave the BS flag" on an article like this, and then turn around and use the same tactics to promote your own airline.

BS flag was for teacher's starting pay. I worked as a school teacher while between jobs, I shopped for teacher's jobs, I know what starting pay for teachers is all about. Some teachers may start at 50k+, but I don't know where. BTW USA Jet starting pay on the DC-9 F/O off the stret in better than 75% of the majors, if in doubt check out airlinecentral.comm.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

BS flag was for teacher's starting pay. I worked as a school teacher while between jobs, I shopped for teacher's jobs, I know what starting pay for teachers is all about. Some teachers may start at 50k+, but I don't know where. BTW USA Jet starting pay on the DC-9 F/O off the stret in better than 75% of the majors, if in doubt check out airlinecentral.comm.

Teachers in Southern Calif start out at that much...

 

[pilotyip]

as stated above

Teachers in Southern Calif start out at that much...

S. Cal is not the standard for the US. S. Cal is not the median, it is the upper limit of the range. Do not apply S. Cal to the rest of the US. If want S. Cal wages live S. Cal and pay extra for everthing.

 

[joe_pilot]

Actually, you might find that many (if not most) scientists -- even "evoluntion"/biological/genetic/etc. scientists -- believe in a higher power. They are smart enough to realize that the two are not mutually exclusive; that, in fact, the "theory" of evolution (for the record: no more a "theory" than is gravity) suggests an elegance beyond human reach. And many have addressed this issue of the origin of matter as the "starting point" where spirituality must play some role (Einstien among them).

I suspect your problem is that these scientists do not happen to believe exactly as you do. That is the problem with fundamentalism (of any flavor): it discounts other viewpoints automatically and without reason. Fundamentalists are dangerous, regardless of which "religion" they represent.

Sorry, but this is not the truth. Einstein himself tried to clear this up whenever his quotes were used out of context.

"I have never talked to a Jesuit prest in my life. I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist." "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one.You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from religious indoctrination received in youth." Freethought Today, November 2004​

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."From a letter Einstein wrote in English, dated 24 March 1954. ​

"During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world... The idea of God in the religions taught at present is a sublimation of that old conception of the gods. Its anthropomorphic character is shown, for instance, by the fact that men appeal to the Divine Being in prayers and plead for the fulfillment of their wishes... In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vase power in the hands of priests." Albert Einstein, reported in Science, Philosophy and Religion: A Symposium, edited by L. Bryson and​

"Thus I came...to a deep religiosity, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of 12. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached a conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true....Suspicion against every kind of authority grew out of this experience...an attitude which has never left me." The Quotable Einstein​

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."




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