$5000 sign on bonus at Eagle

[pilotyip]

While the actual ATP test itself is a bit of a joke (really just the instrument rating again), the main idea behind the ATP requirement is the 1500 hour part. While not every hour of experience is necessarily meaningful, and while there are plenty of 250 hour geniuses who are better than some other pilots with more hours, as a general rule, more hours = more experience = more chances to see unusual events that you can draw from, to guide you through new problems that you have never encountered before. There's nothing better than scaring the crap out of yourself to ensure you don't do stupid things in the future. Sure there are exceptions, but as a rule, the more experienced the pilot, the safer the pilot. I know I was safer at 1500 hours than at 250 hours.

Experience and time do not necessarily go together. Take one of our DA-20 pilots with a 1000 hours of flight time. This is a year of round the clock, day, night, IFR, international, two man cockpit, turbo jet experience. Another pilot has 1501 hours of towing banners, with 1.5 hours of actual IFR time. Who is most experienced? Who gets the job? The answer is not the same.

 

[JustaNumber]

Experience and time do not necessarily go together. Take one of our DA-20 pilots with a 1000 hours of flight time. This is a year of round the clock, day, night, IFR, international, two man cockpit, turbo jet experience. Another pilot has 1501 hours of towing banners, with 1.5 hours of actual IFR time. Who is most experienced? Who gets the job? The answer is not the same.

You're right, not all hours are equal. But you also know that your two examples are not the typical ones showing up for interviews. In the absence of the new ATP requirement, airlines would be more than happy to keep hiring 250 hour pilots right out of the mills, because very few 1000 hour DA-20 pilots are applying to the regionals, due to the lack of compensation. This new rule forces all 121 operations to raise the baseline minimums, so that when they inevitably run out of applicants, they will need to raise the pay, in order to attract the experienced DA-20 guys. This rule will change the entire airline business model, and it WILL result in more experienced pilots at the controls.

I remember Netjets over a decade ago--they were considered the bottom of the barrel, they were the place you applied if you couldn't get hired at the low-paying regionals, who were hiring just about anybody who could fog a mirror. Then Netjets realized the folly of catering to the wealthiest passengers with the lowest-quality pilots, and they significantly raised their pay all at once. After that, they were the go-to choice of the entire industry, and the most highly experienced pilots sought them out. I believe the same thing will happen to the regionals soon, if the majors decide not to shut them down vs. increasing the pay to keep the cockpits full.

 

[say again]

Experience and time do not necessarily go together. Take one of our DA-20 pilots with a 1000 hours of flight time. This is a year of round the clock, day, night, IFR, international, two man cockpit, turbo jet experience. Another pilot has 1501 hours of towing banners, with 1.5 hours of actual IFR time. Who is most experienced? Who gets the job? The answer is not the same.

This is ridiculous! So wait, you have a 1000-hr Falcon pilot with all this experience, how many hrs did he get hired with?? I'm sure that since he can fly a mighty Falcon at such low time that a 1500 hr pilot can certainly handle a regional jet. I'm sure this Falcon pilot didn't have much experience flying the elements. Why would you hire a pilot with such low-time then criticize regionals for doing the dame thing?

 

[pilotyip]

This is ridiculous! So wait, you have a 1000-hr Falcon pilot with all this experience, how many hrs did he get hired with?? I'm sure that since he can fly a mighty Falcon at such low time that a 1500 hr pilot can certainly handle a regional jet. I'm sure this Falcon pilot didn't have much experience flying the elements. Why would you hire a pilot with such low-time then criticize regionals for doing the dame thing?

I was not criticizing the regionals for hiring low time guys. Only relating that this 1000 DA-20 SIC has a lot more real world experience than the 1500 SEL VFR pilot. As guy in the DA-20 was hired with 500TT flew with us a couple years and went on to a regional. 135 will not have hour restriction that 121 does. Hours do not relate directly to skill. In fact the rule lets you get hired at 750 hours if you are a graduate of a military flight training program.

I have seen posts here that confirm some of the best pilots coming into the 121 pax flying come from the KYIP on-deamnd world.

 

[trip]

I'll take the left seat Capt any day over SIC.

 

[labbats]

Not sure if serious?

Did Eagle and does Allegient not pay for (or at least contribute toward) a medical?

Unless you count putting it on my insurance helping then no.

 

[CaptSeth]

How long does it take to get the signing bonus check? Do they send it with the acceptance letter? Just a thought.....

 

[GLEXPilot]

Maybe the airlines will have to start giving out ATPs.

You do know that Eagle is giving all new hires an ATP and type rating in the airplane correct?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

How long does it take to get the signing bonus check? Do they send it with the acceptance letter? Just a thought.....

I think they do it Publisher's Clearing House style. Show up at your door with balloons and an over-sized check.

 

[jmreii]

You do know that Eagle is giving all new hires an ATP and type rating in the airplane correct?

The cost of doing business for many operations such as Eagle will eventually doom this business model or the entire operation altogether. Many businesses are unable to continue with such high business costs.

 

[Gators]

You do know that Eagle is giving all new hires an ATP and type rating in the airplane correct?

New hires are getting a full type during initial?

 

[BoilerUP]

The cost of doing business for many operations such as Eagle will eventually doom this business model or the entire operation altogether. Many businesses are unable to continue with such high business costs.

Very possible...but giving newhires an ATP/type rating isn't going to be the financial tipping point.

 

[GLEXPilot]

New hires are getting a full type during initial?

Yes, and all their current FOs will be getting them as well.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

I never quite understood why regionals never widely adopted the practice of issuing types/ATPs to all new hires with over 1500hrs. It's basically the same ride -but with steep turns, no-flap lndg, and something else I forget (and to ATP standards, of course). Around when I hired on with 9E, probably less than 1/4 of us even met ATP mins anyway- so the strain on APDs would have been minimal. When our seniority got us to upgrade, all that would've been required is a PC/Sim Chk Airman (after the CA course which is mandatory anyway). The only reason I can figure is that they didn't want us to take the training and run (even though the CL-65 is a useless type rating in the corp/135 world). At 9e, we all had to sign a yr training contract anyway. Who knows--I guess regionals have no choice now but to rethink things.

 

[HA25]

How many 1500 pilots are there out there that will work for AE F/O wages? This will be a test of how the 1500 rule will effect regional flying.

God I hope it kills the regionals.... that or makes them pay wages that make sense.

 

[HA25]

You do know that Eagle is giving all new hires an ATP and type rating in the airplane correct?

that should bring their newhire bust / washout rate to about 50%...

 

[Ops check good]

God I hope it kills the regionals.... that or makes them pay wages that make sense.

Thanks. My lively hood depends on a regional. Not eagle.... but a regional none the less. People love to forget where they came from.

P.S. for my age I feel I am making a good amount of money doing this :smash:

 

[GLEXPilot]

that should bring their newhire bust / washout rate to about 50%...

Why is that? You don't think that the new hires can handle the addition of steep turns and circle to land on the type ride?

 

[jonjuan]

I was not criticizing the regionals for hiring low time guys. Only relating that this 1000 DA-20 SIC has a lot more real world experience than the 1500 SEL VFR pilot.

Not if all the DA flying is non-standardized, seat of the pants, allowing for bad habits to be firmed up. Seen plenty of these guys out there.

 

[pilotyip]

Not if all the DA flying is non-standardized, seat of the pants, allowing for bad habits to be firmed up. Seen plenty of these guys out there.

Don't think that is case with our DA-20's. Ours are trained under 121 guide lines. So actually correct habits are being formed up allow the next move in your career. Our DA-20 pilots go on to career positions at SWA, NJ, JB, UAL, NWA, Atlas, Kalitta, etc., so they must have learned something. In fact one of our pilots who went to one of the above named, said he was disappointed with the training at his new place because it was not structured or documented as well as he found in our DA-20.