50 seat Jets. Uncertain future?

[BOX OFFICE]

It's beating a dead horse.....I saw the beginning of all this in the early '80's, if the Mainline boys had fought to include the regional kids on their seniority list, then none of this "scope" nonsense would have been needed, but they ostracised us, had no use for us (except when they needed a commute)...so the "sins of the fathers are being visited upon his children" so to speak.......and it's haunted the whole industry ever since....

Well said. And it continues today, as seen here, where certain mainline pilots continue to piss on the regional pilots. You hear it all the time at DAL, especially among the more junior pilots, blaming the RJ pilots instead of the senior DAL pilots who sold them out. As long as that animosity towards RJ pilots continues, managements divide and conquer strategy will prevail. We need to be negotiating to take all RJ flying back in and staple the RJ pilots to our list. But of course, that will never happen do to the egos on both sides. As always, we are our own worst enemy.

 

[General Lee]

Well said. And it continues today, as seen here, where certain mainline pilots continue to piss on the regional pilots. You hear it all the time at DAL, especially among the more junior pilots, blaming the RJ pilots instead of the senior DAL pilots who sold them out. As long as that animosity towards RJ pilots continues, managements divide and conquer strategy will prevail. We need to be negotiating to take all RJ flying back in and staple the RJ pilots to our list. But of course, that will never happen do to the egos on both sides. As always, we are our own worst enemy.

NOPE. We will NOT spend money on RJs that are currently out there. High gas is taking care of 50 seaters, and 70/76 seaters cannot be recaptured because we don't own most of their planes. (except Comair planes, and some CR7s that are being moved around to Gojets next) Most of us are in favor of not voting for a TA that allows anymore 70/76 seaters, and especially not allowing any 100 seaters. NO WAY. Almost everyone at this level has seen the deterioration of this career thanks to RJs, and lesson learned, no more giveaways. Mistakes were made in the past, but that doesn't mean they have to continue. We still have a concessionary contract, which means there does NOT have to be give and take in this upcoming contract. IF they want 100 seaters, we know who will gladly fly them, mainline pilots. Heck, JB's E190 rates are pretty darn good, and that would have to be included.

The egos on the RJ side were the senior lifers at the regionals who somehow thought they deserved DOH at a Major just because "they were flying Delta passengers too." The egos on the Major side were the guys that didn't want to fly "those little jets." (mainly the guys who allowed it first in the '96 contract) Both of those groups lost out in the end, and it won't get that far again. It just won't.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[flyboyike]

We still have a concessionary contract, which means there does NOT have to be give and take in this upcoming contract.

Doesn't have to be and won't be are two different things. As others have stated, scope erosion certainly didn't have to happen, but it did.

 

[Flyer1015]

and staple the RJ pilots to our list.

So a 25 yr ASA Captain should be beneath a 1st year Delta pilot hired last year? I don't think so.

 

[Flyer1015]

Almost everyone at this level has seen the deterioration of this career thanks to RJs

General Warts, let me fix that for you:

Almost everyone at this level has seen the deterioration of this career thanks to short-sighted greedy Delta compadres in the early 90s.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

So a 25 yr ASA Captain should be beneath a 1st year Delta pilot hired last year? I don't think so.

Yes. He keeps his current seat and seniority in it Or he can stay at his dying regional and start over in few years. Option 1 sounds better to me. He chose to stay at a regional after all.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

NOPE. We will NOT spend money on RJs that are currently out there. High gas is taking care of 50 seaters, and 70/76 seaters cannot be recaptured because we don't own most of their planes. (except Comair planes, and some CR7s that are being moved around to Gojets next) Most of us are in favor of not voting for a TA that allows anymore 70/76 seaters, and especially not allowing any 100 seaters. NO WAY. Almost everyone at this level has seen the deterioration of this career thanks to RJs, and lesson learned, no more giveaways. Mistakes were made in the past, but that doesn't mean they have to continue. We still have a concessionary contract, which means there does NOT have to be give and take in this upcoming contract. IF they want 100 seaters, we know who will gladly fly them, mainline pilots. Heck, JB's E190 rates are pretty darn good, and that would have to Ebe included.

The egos on the RJ side were the senior lifers at the regionals who somehow thought they deserved DOH at a Major just because "they were flying Delta passengers too." The egos on the Major side were the guys that didn't want to fly "those little jets." (mainly the guys who allowed it first in the '96 contract) Both of those groups lost out in the end, and it won't get that far again. It just won't.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Good God Lee, WHY must you keep repeating yourself over and over and over. 15000 posts, and all the same. Wait, I know. Because you have no new information. No , there won't be more scope concessions.

Exactly what I said has been in discussions for about 3 years now a he MEC level. It doesn't matter who owns the planes, and you know full well they're all leased anyhow. When SKW bought ASA the leases were transferred, they can easily be transferred back. DAL actually owns ALL of the leases on the 900s and the 200s are as good as beer cans. As usual, Lee, you're talking out of your ass. It's doable unless egomaniacs like yourself who hate everyone "beneath" you continue to make excuses.

 

[General Lee]

Good God Lee, WHY must you keep repeating yourself over and over and over. 15000 posts, and all the same. Wait, I know. Because you have no new information. No , there won't be more scope concessions.

Exactly what I said has been in discussions for about 3 years now a he MEC level. It doesn't matter who owns the planes, and you know full well they're all leased anyhow. When SKW bought ASA the leases were transferred, they can easily be transferred back. DAL actually owns ALL of the leases on the 900s and the 200s are as good as beer cans. As usual, Lee, you're talking out of your ass. It's doable unless egomaniacs like yourself who hate everyone "beneath" you continue to make excuses.

Oh GAWD, here we go again........she's at it again......??? Which MEC are you talking about? The new DPA that may get voted in? Anyway, most of us egomanics WON'T SPEND A DIME on recapturing that. Now, that doesn't mean we won't stop any MORE from being allowed, and certainly no 100 seaters at the regionals, that's a big no no. 50 seaters are going away thanks to high oil, and if the company feels it's necessary to bring the RJ pilots on the list (for future recruitment reasons, like AA proposed with AA Eagle), then FANTASTIC. Bring em onboard. But, I won't give away money when it behooves Delta to do it anyway. They want to know where their future pilots are coming from when retirements do start leaving in droves in about 2-3 years. Get it yet? Delta wants this anyway, why do I need to pay for it? As long as they don't demand DOH, it should be "all good....." So, staple em, that would be FANTASTIC.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So a 25 yr ASA Captain should be beneath a 1st year Delta pilot hired last year? I don't think so.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? It's called career expectations. Look it up you moron. See Box Office, this is what we are dealing with. These are the guys that RUIN it for everyone else. If Delta will supposedly lose 7600 pilots to age 65 in the next 15 years (stated in an article), most of these guys would be narrowbody Captains or bigger within the next 15 years, but guys like this want MORE.....and that is why this idea could fail. Box, this is your guy.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Doesn't have to be and won't be are two different things. As others have stated, scope erosion certainly didn't have to happen, but it did.

A BK judge won't be making the decision here. Nothing is forced upon during negotiations. If we kept scope status quo, that would still not allow anymore 70/76 seaters, and no 100 seaters for DCI (we have the payrates for them at the mainline level if they want them). And as I stated before, things could be in play for possibly more consolidation, and contracts can really get in the way, and I don't think top brass wants that (as stated by some of them). If ALPA brought a TA that had anything close to what you say could happen, it would be voted down in a second, and that is a fact. As I stated before, the majority here are tired of watching this career shrink, and I really wouldn't get your hopes up. Flyer1015 is hoping so terribly, but he will be let down for sure, just like his 10 airline interviews in the Middle East and Sub Saharan Africa a few months ago.


Bye Bye---General Lee