47 Grads of Gulfstream hired by Pinnacle

[wapilot]

In other words, if you can take it elsewhere, it is not P-F-T.


Gulfstream graduates 1- are not employees 2-are not guaranteed a job 3- are obviously taking this training and using it somewhere else (flying for Airlink and other regionals). I know Gulfstream pilots that fly for Frontier, Air Wisconsin, Colgan, Airlink, Air Tran, Skywest, & Great Mistakes, just to name a few. I know Gulfstream graduates that can't fly worth a @#$% and don't belong anywhere close to a 121 or 135 operation. There are others that are grreat people and great pilots. Unless people that are doing the hiring are just plain morons, this approach to training seems to work. I have a four year degree, I was working on my CFI before 9-11, took both writtens, made all my lesson plans and will get my certificate before the two years allowed is over. I've worked throughout the aviation industry for over 14 years. All I ask is that we all try not to make blanket statements about all Gulfstream pilots and their reasons for going through their program.

 

[bobbysamd]

Taking the training elsewhere

Let me clarify that point further.

Company training is esoteric. Each airline does things its own way. You can have six different regionals who all fly, say, 1900s. However, each regional will have its own ideas on SOPs for operating the airplane, although it's the same airplane. Which means, for example, you train at and fly 1900s at Gulfstream. You fly off your hitch there and get a 1900 job at Mesa or in Alaska. Although you may have 250 hours in 1900s from Gulfstream, you have to learn what may be completely new procedures at your new job. I realize that you know the 1900 systems already, but that's a small advantage. Others at class will catch up to you soon enough. Same in the sim.

The same thing applies vice versa. You come to Gulfstream from Mesa with 1900 time. You still have to learn Gulfstream's way of doing business.

I'll provide a non-aviation example. My first legal job was in a probate and estates shop. I toiled there nearly 4½ years. I learned a lot. Then I got my current job in a PI and Workers' Comp office. Although I had 4½ years of paralegal experience, most of what I had learned was useless and completely inapplicable in my new job, i.e. esoteric. Aside from my new office having a different routine, I had a new area of law to learn and I had to learn it fast. About the only thing both places had in common was they were lawfirms.

Now, let's say you earned an unlimited 1900 type at Gulfstream. That is on your certificate. It is yours. It does not belong to Gulfstream.

Maybe a way to reconcile in one's mind Southwest's 737 type requirement is to compare it to corporate flying. Usually corporate wants someone with a type and time in type. It's just a qual they want. Look at it another way. What if you're a United furloughee with a 737 type? United upgraded you on its nickel. Losing your United job is very much a kick in the nuts, but your 737 type is yours. Free to market to Southwest, who is interviewing.

I understand 100LL's point about commuter low pay. But might a better term for it be "pay through the nose?" I know that it improves after the first year.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Heck, when I first went to 3M, the F/Os weren't allowed to touch the gear or flaps. They were instructed to "keep your hands out of the business section of the aircraft" (the entire throttle quadrant)

 

[100LL... Again!]

OFF TOPIC RANT:

---------------------------------------------
Heck, when I first went to 3M, the F/Os weren't allowed to touch the gear or flaps. They were instructed to "keep your hands out of the business section of the aircraft" (the entire throttle quadrant)
---------------------------------------------

WTF?? What kind of Prima Donnas do you have to fly with anyway? Whether I was qualified or not to fly where you do, I'd rather give up flying than share a cockpit with such a poor example of CRM. I hope it's not as bad as you make it sound. Guys like that led to the accidents that brought CRM to the fore anyway.


Their attitude: Until you've proven yourself, you aren't cr-p.

The CORRECT attitude: Until you've proven otherwise, you ARE competent.

That type of behavior is usually rooted in a person's deeply held need to feel superior to others. Give me a ragtag bunch of freight guys or commuter pilots anyday. My kind of people.



Anyway, back to PFT.
The problem isn't the PAYING. Several years ago, a bunch of regionals made it the only way to get on. It is simple supply and demand.

My problem is that is is/has been used in a way that provides a way for underqualified pilots to shortcut the experience building curve. Any 300 hr pilot that thinks that they are above flight instructing should never be allowed to fly for a living, IMO.
NOTE: I did not say pilot who did not instruct. I said pilots who feel that they are ABOVE doing instruction. You know who you are. People who think this way, ironicly, could probably stand to benefit the most from such experience.

Some of this recent crop of low time pilots may experience some challenges upgrading. (SOME, not all.) Seen it happen.

Sometimes I wish the FARs required 1200TT before you could be a 121 FO.

Flame away.

 

[bobbysamd]

Underqualfied and cutting ahead

Originally posted by 100LL... Again!
My problem is that is is/has been used in a way that provides a way for underqualified pilots to shortcut the experience building curve. Any 300 hr pilot that thinks that they are above flight instructing should never be allowed to fly for a living, IMO.
NOTE: I did not say pilot who did not instruct. I said pilots who feel that they are ABOVE doing instruction. You know who you are. People who think this way, ironicly, could probably stand to benefit the most from such experience.

On the other hand, do you want such people giving instruction? They will take out their bad attitudes on their poor students/customers.

Not only is it bad policy to pay to shortcut the quals, P-F-T obviates opportunities for the better qualified. P-F-T is a fairness issue. It is not fair to cut in line ahead of others. Doing so violates the basic rules of society. I go back to my previous examples of people who routinely cut in line at the grocery store and the bank, and being cut off in traffic. Bear in mind how you feel when these things happen to you.

 

[100LL... Again!]

bobbysamd:

-----------------------------
On the other hand, do you want such people giving instruction? They will take out their bad attitudes on their poor students/customers.
-----------------------------

Touche!

In my little dream world, however, these people would be weeded right out of the industry, or wind up flying a 'cargo plane full of rubber dogs--t out of Hong Kong'.