$35k Saved-- MBA or Get my Wings?

[350DRIVER]

I think for the most part some great advice has been given but people need to keep in mind that "FLYING" does NOT require a MBA to gain employment as a pilot. < bottom line. A four year degree is enough (

The poster asked whether or not he should do the MBA "OR" do his flight training....

What does he want to do? FLY or work a 9-5 desk job.?? -

Does he enjoy flying enough to do it as a career and endure the struggles of the industry.?

Where is his heart and desires.??

I don't think we are pilots can answer those questions for him. What we can answer is that "needing" to get the MBA to secure a job as a PILOT in the aviation industry is just completely FALSE and will continue to be that way-


3 5 0

good luck to whatever he chooses

 

[Loafman]

I took the honking huge paycut from the engineering world to the airline industry and have never regretted it. I made less money to start, but after I caught up salary-wise, I can't imagine ever doing anything else. If you truly have a passion for flying, an airline job will never snuff it out. Just avoid AMR like the plague, I've NEVER seen a happy AA pilot. The corporate culture stinks like a can of smashed a$$holes, and it may never get better. There's always time for higher education, and that's not the last $35K you'll ever save up. Despite the doom and gloom attitudes out there, several regionals are hiring 500 hour pilots from accelerated bridge programs, and once your foot is in the door, you'll do fine.

 

[av8instyle]

bad economy...

Which means right now is the perfect time for a guy getting started. By the time you get training done and have a year or two as a CFI, the hiring will be going again.

 

[azpilot]

Food for thought

Obviously things can change but....

CollegeJournal.com Reports Sobering Outlook for New M.B.A. Grads
Tuesday February 25, 9:45 am ET


PRINCETON, N.J., Feb. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- The market for M.B.A. talent is as cold as the weather, and students can only hope for a spring thaw of last minute recruiting, according to CollegeJournal.com, The Wall Street Journal's site for career-minded college students.

In "MBA Track," CollegeJournal.com's new column about business-school issues, columnist Ron Alsop reports that most school officials and recruiters don't expect demand for M.B.A. graduates to rebound before summer or fall -- if then.

The vast majority of business schools are reporting fewer recruiters than last year, with some experiencing a 50% drop in the number of companies on campus. The weak economy, depressed stock market and threat of war are making companies -- even those that are thriving -- wary of hiring expensive M.B.A. talent until it's absolutely necessary. Students at prestigious schools, of course, are faring best. Harvard Business School, the University of Chicago, Columbia and other top schools report that recruiting activity is about level with last year. In fact, they are attracting companies that used to visit second- and third-tier schools but now are making what some recruiters call a "flight to quality."

"Companies wisely are capitalizing on the fact that they can now compete for top talent because investment banks and consulting firms are hiring far fewer students from such schools as Wharton and Harvard," says Mr. Alsop. "It's the less elite schools that are being left high and dry."

How much money should M.B.A. graduates expect this year if they get lucky? Signing bonuses will definitely be punier and in shorter supply; year-end bonuses and stock options will be even scarcer. As for base pay, the National Association of Colleges and Employers, a nonprofit organization based in Bethlehem, Pa., surveyed companies and found that nearly half plan to keep M.B.A. salaries flat. Among those boosting their offers this year, the average increase will be a mere 3.9%.

"Most surprising was the survey's finding that 54% of recruiters say students still are trying to negotiate bigger salaries and that nearly 30% find that students' sense of entitlement has not diminished during the economic downturn," says Mr. Alsop.

Mr. Alsop, a Wall Street Journal editor, is in charge of The Wall Street Journal/Harris Interactive Business-School Survey and is the editor of "The Wall Street Journal Guide to the Top Business Schools," published by Wall Street Journal Books, an imprint of Simon & Schuster. To read his column, "MBA Track," visit http://www.CollegeJournal.com .

 

[pipers]

What do you want to do with your MBA? Aviation business? Why not do both? Your young enough......

I'm starting my Masters in Economics this fall while still flight instructing at the local college. I plan to do an airline-transportation emphasis. I don't know exactly what doors it will open up, but completing a M.S. degree is something I've always wanted to do regardless of where I ended up. I've talked with the school, and if I get hired in the middle of my studies, I have up to 5 years to complete my degree...which should be doable You might not be able to go to the school of your choice, but you could still complete an MBA while flying. Things do suck right now, but things will get better. If you truly want to fly, 36 years or more is a long time to sit in an office. Good luck.

 

[Vicman]

Both!

join the USAF any component of...they pay for your masters and if you are lucky you might be selected for UPT training and eventually be a rated milAv.

if my information is wrong please correct me..anyone.

 

[huncowboy]

Sorry to go against the old guys here but my vote is also for flying. You want to be ready to apply and have at least some 1500+ hours by the time some hiring will start to happen again. When that happens you don't want to just start training.

Of course as it looks it may take years for that so you may even be able to get an MBA and still have time to get ready. We just don't know, but to get some dual given right now (not talking about getting a CFI job that is hard already) is slow unless you land at a very busy place. I also have a BBA and I think I will get my MBA only after I am hired as a CFI because that won't take all my day.

Another thing is that the next step for starters after CFIing is cargo, or charter or if lucky a regional job. None of these need more than a Bachelor even that is an overkill except may be for the regional. If we talk majors than yes I vote for a Masters but getting there seems to take so much time that one can get any degree.

My 0.02 only.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

Well, figure id check back in, nothing really has developed as I was layed off from my tech job about 6 weeks ago, was on track to have them pay for my MBA that I was going to get while working there, but now back to the drawing board. Im either A) going to get a regular job while trying to earn my wings at a local FBO somewhere here in the Dallas area, or just get a regular job and save up for one of those all-inclusive schools that you just go there and and they spend 24-7 to train you........

One other alternative im researching right now is going and getting trained to be an Air Traffic Controller. Considering that option as well right now......just sucks being unemployed

 

[Mason]

Do Both!

I was in the same boat as you several years ago. I was 26 and had been flying a desk for 4.5 years and wanted a career change. I left the desk job and got all my ratings and then was very fortunate to be hired by the school that trained me. Now I'm looking into adding an MBA in the event that someday I cannot support myself in the aviation world. Bottom line is that I think that you should go ahead and get all of your ratings and then if you still want the MBA, find a program that offers distance learning or night/weekend classes. Pursue both.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

Just to clarify, what are the different civilian avenues one can take to get their wings?

 

[bobbysamd]

Civvy flight training options

You have to obtain your own initial training, at your expense. By that I mean shelling out your own cash, getting loans, scholarships, or help from Mom and Dad.

You can go about it any number of ways. You can train at an FBO that offers flight training. You can go to a flight school, where all it does is train pilots. Examples include FlightSafety Academy, Delta Connection Academy (formerly known as Comair Aviation Academy) and All-ATPs. At DCA, you have a chance to be hired at Comair Airlines. You can go to a formal aviation college, such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, and earn your certificates and, in your case, another four-year degree. Or, you can take the Mesa Airlines Pilot Development program. There, you earn your certificates and ratings and a two-year Aviation Technology degree from San Juan College, and can be interviewed for a job at Mesa Airlines at the end.

You have plenty of choices. A couple of the above sound too good to be true, i.e. an airline interview, but rest assured that none of this comes as easy as it sounds. You will have to apply yourself fully to succeed.

Hope this helps. Good luck with whatever direction you travel.

 

[bart]

Maybe this will help:

Average Starting Salary MBA (from a well known school): $55,000 a year

Average Flight Instructor: $18,000 a year


In 3 years with the MBA and good performance reviews and a promotion, you are probably around $70K to $80K, though this is by no means the upper limit.

In 3 years flight instructing, you are an FO at a regional making...

$18,000 a year.

If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of really long hours with pitiful pay, I recommend flying. If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of long hours with good pay, get your MBA.

 

[RUNNINHORN]

Maybe this will help:

Average Starting Salary MBA (from a well known school): $55,000 a year

Average Flight Instructor: $18,000 a year


In 3 years with the MBA and good performance reviews and a promotion, you are probably around $70K to $80K, though this is by no means the upper limit.

In 3 years flight instructing, you are an FO at a regional making...

$18,000 a year.

If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of really long hours with pitiful pay, I recommend flying. If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of long hours with good pay, get your MBA.

true, but you cant say that you will stay at $18k forever...........

 

[bobbysamd]

Don't forget the LUCK factor!

Average Starting Salary MBA (from a well known school): $55,000 a year . . . . Average Flight Instructor: $18,000 a year . . . . In 3 years with the MBA and good performance reviews and a promotion, you are probably around $70K to $80K, though this is by no means the upper limit . . . . In 3 years flight instructing, you are an FO at a regional making . . . $18,000 a year.

true, but you cant say that you will stay at $18k forever...........

One important aspect to bear in mind is that it takes time, opportunity and LUCK to be hired at a regional. Not everyone who applies is hired, and especially given these times, you may have to stand in line for years before it's your turn. By that time, you may be overripe.

Take it from someone who knows. Sixteen years ago, I started apply to regionals when I was under time. When I finally made time, I received few responses. At that time a recession and an Iraq war hit, both of which essentially stopped massive hiring. I continued to instruct and I was proud of how I was making a living as a pilot while other, more experienced pilots were not finding work. Despite all that, no regional wanted me, although I had an ATP and more than twice the multi time they wanted. So, do not assume that a regional will hire you. There are plenty of pilots whose careers begin, continue and end as flight instructors.

Having said all that, I have heard that very senior captains at Comair make $90K+ a year. But, it took them several years to get there, and, they had to be hired.

If I were to lay odds, the odds of you earning sub-$30K per year pay for years as a pilot are much greater than earning much higher pay sooner, and advancing faster, as an M.B.A. You really cannot write your own ticket as an M.B.A. - no one can in these times - but an M.B.A. seems to be a better ticket for success these days than an ATP.

Hope this helps some more. Once more, good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Timebuilder]

Think about "leverage"

If you get your MBA first, then in a year or two you can buy a Bonanza or Baron and fly when you like. You will be regarded as a professional, with transportable experience into literally thousands of businesses where you are seen as a valued member of a leadership team. You can instruct on weekends, determine when you will be with your family (and for how long) and chart your own course in aviation.

Or, you can take the very extreme chance that you will be one of those individuals who is seen by interviewers as the "right" candidate who fits their needs, and in a few years top out at less than 100k after several years making far less, being away from your family, subject to the whim of at-will employment in a narrow field and the needs of a low-cost regional operator who sees employees as expendable parts.

So you can fly on your terms, or you can fly on someone else's terms. Your choice.

 

[bart]

Well said Bobby and TB. You may not stay at $18K forever. You might be making $90K, but I bet it will take 10 plus years to get there.

I make about 4 times my pilot rate per day with my business skills, that are built on an MBA from a nationally known school as a foundation. I also enjoy my work tremendously. It is much more challenging than flying has ever been. Flying is fun and is a great diversion from my "day job", and I am lucky enough to have 2 employers that value my contributions enough to work with me so I can do both.

I will tell you that if I were to fly full time, it would not come close to paying the bills.

Bets of luck in your decision, just realize that the full-time flyibng route is going to be challenging financially for a long period of time.

 

[enigma]

That is where I am right now. Im trying to decide if I should go back and get my Masters Degree in Business Administration here in Dallas at S.M.U. OR go to one of the Flight Training School's and pay for my training all the way to A.T.P. If you were 24 years old, and given the current economic situation, which would you pursue, your wings or MBA? I absolutely LOVE flying, was earning my private in college until the $$$ ran out, and am now trying to decide which way to go in life. What would you do and why? Which would be most beneficial in the long run to have? Thanks in advance for the input.........

Do you want to be an airline pilot, or not? If so, then fly. If not, then get the MBA. You wrote, "I absolutely LOVE flying". I don't doubt that, but do you LOVE being a professional pilot? There is a big difference between flying for yourself and flying for someone else. Listen carefully to the words that those of us who are flying professionally now, and carefully consider your goal. Achieving a successful flying career will be more difficult than you may imagine, but it is fulfilling if you decide to take the plunge.

I will echo others and say that you should probably get the MBA anyway just to have a fallback plan if you ever lose your medical; but an advanced degree is not necessary for advancement in aviation.

If I had it to do over again, I'd get the education, get a job that allowed me to sleep in my own bed every night, and fly my own airplane on my schedule for fun.


Good Luck,
enigma

 

[fr0g]

Ok, here's another suggestion:
Assuming you have a "day job" that will pay your bills, use the 35k and get an old Cessna 172 (like 56-mid 60's). You can get a good one for around 25k I believe, and that will leave you with 10k to pay for MX for a few years. Then, go fly the sh!t out of it, and get your private, commercial, instrument, cfI, CFII in it. Heck, get your A&P if you have time. Get about 1000 hours, and sell it. You will probably get most of your initial investment back. Then use that $ to get some multi time, and then go get a job at a regional. With any luck you'll have a few grand left over to pay your bills that first year of "no pay".
This way, you'll have a decent amount of experience, and you'll have a good deal of hours built up.
Just my suggestion, your milage may vary

 

[bart]

You may want to at least consider fuel costs for that 172. For the o-300 figure 7 gals an hour for 1,000 hours is 7,000 gals. If you have an auto gas stc that will still run about $11,000, if you dont, then figure about $17,000.

 

[carlos]

Maybe this will help:

Average Starting Salary MBA (from a well known school): $55,000 a year

Average Flight Instructor: $18,000 a year


In 3 years with the MBA and good performance reviews and a promotion, you are probably around $70K to $80K, though this is by no means the upper limit.

In 3 years flight instructing, you are an FO at a regional making...

$18,000 a year.

If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of really long hours with pitiful pay, I recommend flying. If you are looking for 5 or 6 years of long hours with good pay, get your MBA.

Or look at it this way. Take the MBA job and use the extra $37K (55,000-18,000) a year to fly where and when you want. Just as an example, at $75/hour wet, you could fly almost 500 hours a year. Plus you'll likely have full benefits at your job, which you'll rarely get as a CFI.

A few years of flying for fun and you'll have your hours, an MBA, and all your options still open.