3 1/2 hours of water across the gulf would you do it?

[Rally]

So flying from Florida to Central America. Go around through texas and spend 10 more hours. OR. Go down through Key West then across 3 1/2 hours to Cancun. The aircraft is a single and does about 100 knots in addition it holds about 4:45 in gas so I'd have 1:15 when I got to Cancun. What does every body think? My idea is if you have a engine failure your at least not far from the Coast Guards reach and the water is at least warm, I would'nt do it without a raft and vests obviously.

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

yes,
two years as a cfi, i'll do anything to get away from the mundane

 

[Huggyu2]

Is it your airplane, or are you ferrying it for someone else?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Nope...but thats just me. Life vest and raft or not, I value my life too much. Just isn't worth the risk.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Nope. I think it's asking for trouble in a light single. Especially a 3 1/2 hour flight over a large body of water, while pushing fuel reserves, not including an extra pad in case you need to divert for weather... bad idea.

Now a nice twin with a good weather radar, yes.

 

[ferlo]

It's been a long time but isn't there some kind of reg that says you need to be able to glide to a suitable landing place if you lose an engine over water?

Although, 2 hrs from land and the engine quits you've got bigger problems.

to answer your question, No I would not do it.

 

[USMCmech]

It's been a long time but isn't there some kind of reg that says you need to be able to glide to a suitable landing place if you lose an engine over water?

No such regulation in the FARs.

Now your insurance policy may be another matter entirely, but you're OK with the feds.



Now Key West to the Caymans is a regulary flown route. And there is little time that you are out of reach of land. KEYW to Cuba is only 90 miles & at 10k MSL you can glide 20, so you are only out of reach of land for 20 minutes or so. I don't know of hand what the overwater distance from cuba to the caymans is, but it's something similar.


There is a regulary flown "cayman caravan" where dozens of singles fly to grand cayman. Very few ptoblems.

OTOH you only have one engine.

 

[Rally]

No, it is for pleasure. I think my main concern is really not so much being over water for 3 1/2 hours because whats the difference between that and the bahamas, your still gonna ditch and your still going to get wet. I think I may do it if I had the extra baggage compartment tank with a extra like 19 gallons or something thats like almost 2 1/2 hours, no biggie on reserve.

 

[MarineGrunt]

It's been a long time but isn't there some kind of reg that says you need to be able to glide to a suitable landing place if you lose an engine over water?

The reg that you are thinking of is if you are operating for hire, and flying beyond power off glide distance from shore, you need to have the appropriate survival equipment.

 

[MarineGrunt]

No, it is for pleasure. I think my main concern is really not so much being over water for 3 1/2 hours because whats the difference between that and the bahamas, your still gonna ditch and your still going to get wet. I think I may do it if I had the extra baggage compartment tank with a extra like 19 gallons or something thats like almost 2 1/2 hours, no biggie on reserve.

I ddi the math and if it's a 172, you should have about 2 hours fuel when you get there. If you do a straight shot from the Keys, you come within a couple miles of Havana's airspace. I'd be pretty careful about that, make sure you have a good GPS. Still wouldn't do it without wx radar though. (at least in IMC)

 

[semperfido]

So flying from Florida to Central America. Go around through texas and spend 10 more hours. OR.

...you need to build time. take the long way.

 

[HoursHore]

The world need less pilots.

Go for it.

 

[User546]

The reg that you are thinking of is if you are operating for hire, and flying beyond power off glide distance from shore, you need to have the appropriate survival equipment.

Correct, the regs are addressing when you need to have survival equipment onboard.

I personally would not ever do that. Especially in a 100-knot, light single. Don't ever count on the Coast Guard being close enough. Are you going to get the radio call out in time, is the radio signal going to be strong enough to get to the right person, are they going to be able to find your exact position in a timely manner, is the weather a sure fire bet?

You don't want to end up halfway across the Gulf and have to make a decision whether or not to turn back or not. With a 1.5 in reserves, that sounds like a lot, but keep in mind your headed west, and at the wrong time of season you could have some vicious head winds. And your only working with 100 knots to begin with, even 30 knots of headwind knocks you down to 70 knots groundspeed.

If it was me, I'd personally spend the extra 10 hours and ride the coast all the way down. You'll always be close to an airport/help if your aircraft develops trouble or you encounter weather, and best of all, you'd have much better scenery to look at, and it'd be a lot more enjoyable and less stressful then taking a chance going across the drink the long way.

We flew over the Gulf just last week from Texas to Florida, and just the hour or so we were over it, it sure began to feel lonely staring down at that blue water as far as you could see.

Just remember this, if your airplane goes down in the middle of the Gulf, you survive and are floating in your raft for a few days waiting on someone to come fish you out.... would that extra 10 hours really have been such a big deal?

 

[C425Driver]

No, it is for pleasure. I think my main concern is really not so much being over water for 3 1/2 hours because whats the difference between that and the bahamas, your still gonna ditch and your still going to get wet. I think I may do it if I had the extra baggage compartment tank with a extra like 19 gallons or something thats like almost 2 1/2 hours, no biggie on reserve.

There's one big difference between going to Cancun and going to the Bahamas if you end up ditching - if you ditch half way to Cancun you will be treading water much longer while you're waiting for a rescue attempt or a shark attack.

C425Driver

 

[KigAir]

I see that you have an ATP. Shouldn't you be able to make this decision yourself?

 

[satpak77]

well might as well PREPARE for it

So flying from Florida to Central America. Go around through texas and spend 10 more hours. OR. Go down through Key West then across 3 1/2 hours to Cancun. The aircraft is a single and does about 100 knots in addition it holds about 4:45 in gas so I'd have 1:15 when I got to Cancun. What does every body think? My idea is if you have a engine failure your at least not far from the Coast Guards reach and the water is at least warm, I would'nt do it without a raft and vests obviously.

If you don't do it thru Texas, I would buy the following items and put them on board. Maybe put them into a red gym bag (for visibility) with styrofoam inside

1) Life raft (will not be in gym bag of course...)

2) A Type 2 or Type-1 (preferred) life vest. Keep this in the co-pilots seat. A type-1 vest is designed to keep an unconsious persons head upright in rough ocean water.

3) Signal mirror and old fashioned magnetic compass (boy scout style)

4) Signal flares

5) Handheld aviation VHF-radio, fully charged, tripled bagged in waterproof Ziploc bags. If cost allows, a handheld marine VHF-FM radio also, tuned to Ch.16 but turned OFF.

6) Clif bars/power bars and bottled water. If short on space, more water is better.

On the day of the ocean crossing, I recommend you wear a LONG SLEEVE RED SHIRT, as it will enhance SAR efforts than if you go down with your dark green polo on.

You should also monitor 121.50 at ALL TIMES. Be cognizant of the Cuba ADIZ. Also if not talking to any particular controller, monitor the High Altitude center freqs for your area as all the airlines will be up on them.

If you estimate the crossing to be 3 hours, you might take off 1 hour before sunrise, get headed enroute, then should anything happen out over the ocean, SAR crews have almost the entire day (daytime) to physically find you. Contrast this to depart at 4 PM and something happens after sunset. Plus AM weather over the Gulf is a little more docile than Afternoon WX

You might also wait till mid-December or January, when the Hurricane Season is confirmed over.

 

[USMCmech]

You don't want to end up halfway across the Gulf and have to make a decision whether or not to turn back or not.

I think you guys are not looking at a map. Flying to the Caymans isn't crossing a large ocean, it's hopping from island to island. Many of the great lakes are larger.

Key West to Cuba 90 miles. At 10k you will never be out of sight of land. If you have any problems 50 miles after takeing off from KEYW you can go land in Cuba. Any airplane declaring an emergency will be welcomed in Cuba with no reprecusions other than some extra paperwork.

Flying over Cuba is a non event since you will be under flight following while over their airspace. After that I belive it's less that 100m from cuba to Grand Cayman. Same deal as the previous leg.

Hundreds of airplanes make this trip every year. As well as flying to the Bahamas. PBI to Grand Bahama is only 50 miles, then you hop the islands on down.

Contact the peopel who organize the Cayman Caravan for details regarding paperwork. I knew a pilot who made this trip every year in a Bonanza. He said he never had any problems, took his wife and kid too.


Definately have the proper survival gear. Have a life vest and WEAR IT. You will not have time to put it on in the event of an emergency. Have an EPIRB/GPS that will give you location over satalite (useually you can rent these). Also have proper signaling devices, flares, mirror, ect.


I would not do this in a rental, but if I had a airplane that I KNOW is in good mechaical condition I'd go without reservation.

 

[wrxpilot]

I'd trust the engine (if I knew the history), but I'd be weary of fuel reserves in an unforecast headwind. Besides, flying over the ocean is very lonely... I've flown from FL to Bahamas and that's hardly anything. But I was CLOSELY watching the instruments and hearing every discrepancy in the engine. Same goes for when I've flown back from the Keys at night. I just don't think my nerves could handle 3.5 hrs.

Put another way, if I absolutely had to cross a large body of water (if I was flying to Europe for example), I could probably accept a crossing taking a couple of hours. But if I had a choice, I'd take the land route. I just can't imagine the feeling of having engine trouble and knowing I could've taken a safer route... But what do I know, I'm a low time PPL, lol. I'm also assuming we're NOT talking about a rental here...

 

[satpak77]

I think you guys are not looking at a map. Flying to the Caymans isn't crossing a large ocean, it's hopping from island to island. Many of the great lakes are larger.

thanks but I have only made about twenty trips crossing the Gulf of Mexico to South America

thanks for the advice how flying to the Caymans is not "crossing a large ocean"

 

[Famous Dave]

Rally, if you do decide to do it (which I hope you do), it will be one of the best things you will have ever done. When you do, come back to this board and brag about it. Good Luck.
Dave