299 line check

[727Niteflyer]

About all I understand is how ignorant you guys are. Ive been doing this for 20 years as a DO or Chief Pilot. If you think the faa is all that, they call me about items.

If you think that you can log time in a position your not qualified for, more power to you. good luck explaining it if any every questions you.

The initial question was not for the purposes of a rating the initial question was refering to logging of time in the 135 world without a 299 ride.

293 has aircraft and oral requirements
297 has aircraft an oral requirements
299 is for the pic qualification.

goood luck

 

[727Niteflyer]

one more thing, that might help. Many years ago down in miami alot of individuals were going into the faa for their ATP with PIC multiengine time logged in their logbook. One Inspector noticed a tail number that was on a 135 certificate. So when they investigated they found that alot of individuals were logging pic time on an aircraft that was on a 135 certificate. Just plain old piston engine multis. and they busted a bunch of them and started looking at how the time was logged and what aircraft were listed in their logbooks. These guys were logging the dead legs as pic. They got in big trouble.

 

[brokeflyer]

its all a matter of how the reg is interpreted. From what you wrote I can understand that point. I've also seen other inspectors say the exact opposite. You can log PIC on a 135 dead leg if you're rated and current and flying the plane, because it isnt under part 135.

I missed part of that original question about it being a 135 leg.

Ill answer the original question diffrently so that everyone will be happy.

When in doubt, don't log anything.

To LOG PIC on a 135 flight you need a current .299

The only way the right seat guy can LOG PIC time on a 135 flight is to be actully flying the plane AND have a .293, .297 AND a .299.

All solved, moving on.

 

[fr8r]

its all a matter of how the reg is interpreted. From what you wrote I can understand that point. I've also seen other inspectors say the exact opposite. You can log PIC on a 135 dead leg if you're rated and current and flying the plane, because it isnt under part 135.

I missed part of that original question about it being a 135 leg.

Ill answer the original question diffrently so that everyone will be happy.

When in doubt, don't log anything.

To LOG PIC on a 135 flight you need a current .299

The only way the right seat guy can LOG PIC time on a 135 flight is to be actully flying the plane AND have a .293, .297 AND a .299.

So the regs must be written wrong? okay?!?!
Again, a .299 is for specifying who can Legally SERVE as In Command.

A .297 is for who is Qualified as PIC(you have to be qualified before you can SERVE as PIC, that is why you never do a .299 before a .297)

one more thing, that might help. Many years ago down in miami alot of individuals were going into the faa for their ATP with PIC multiengine time logged in their logbook. One Inspector noticed a tail number that was on a 135 certificate. So when they investigated they found that alot of individuals were logging pic time on an aircraft that was on a 135 certificate. Just plain old piston engine multis. and they busted a bunch of them and started looking at how the time was logged and what aircraft were listed in their logbooks. These guys were logging the dead legs as pic. They got in big trouble.

727Niteflyer, Simple. It sounds like they were manipulating the controls of an airplane on a 135 trip when they didn't have a .293 or .297, let alone a .299. They deserved that bust. Also, unless they were company persons, they had no business being on the plane. It's illegal. I would say that it was a good catch by the FAA.

If you read FAR 1.1 it gives you the criteria for SERVING as a PIC. If you read 61.51, it gives you the rules for LOGGING PIC.

Now, if you logged 100 hours of PIC in an airplane but had not served as a PIC yet, would you be restricted as a "High Minimums Captain?" Yes, because you have not SERVED as a PIC. This is getting more and more like beating a dead horse.

 

[avbug]

so you dont need to be qualified as a pic to log it ?

One need not be acting as PIC to log it.

One need only be rated in the aircraft, to log it. Category, Class, and where applicable, type.

You are able to read, are you not?

As you being chief pilot...yipee. Clearly you were a chief pilot who didn't have a clue whence he spoke...and clearly you still don't.

 

[fr8r]

You are able to read, are you not?

As you being chief pilot...yipee. Clearly you were a chief pilot who didn't have a clue whence he spoke...and clearly you still don't.

Nicely stated. Or you might be the kind of CP that people are writing stories about on here.

 

[brokeflyer]

So the regs must be written wrong? okay?!?!
Again, a .299 is for specifying who can Legally SERVE as In Command.

A .297 is for who is Qualified as PIC(you have to be qualified before you can SERVE as PIC, that is why you never do a .299 before a .297)



727Niteflyer, Simple. It sounds like they were manipulating the controls of an airplane on a 135 trip when they didn't have a .293 or .297, let alone a .299. They deserved that bust. Also, unless they were company persons, they had no business being on the plane. It's illegal. I would say that it was a good catch by the FAA.

If you read FAR 1.1 it gives you the criteria for SERVING as a PIC. If you read 61.51, it gives you the rules for LOGGING PIC.

Now, if you logged 100 hours of PIC in an airplane but had not served as a PIC yet, would you be restricted as a "High Minimums Captain?" Yes, because you have not SERVED as a PIC. This is getting more and more like beating a dead horse.

thats what i said before, but the experts got all excited.

There is a diffrence between LOGGING and ACTING as a pic.

If you really want the correct answer then call your local FSDO and talk to the POI assigned to your outfit. FAA inspectors interpret the regs as diffrently as everyone else. You need to know what YOUR poi wants and go with that.

 

[fr8r]

If you really want the correct answer then call your local FSDO and talk to the POI assigned to your outfit. FAA inspectors interpret the regs as diffrently as everyone else. You need to know what YOUR poi wants and go with that.

No thanks. That is not their job.

 

[brokeflyer]

No thanks. That is not their job.

Well it was when I worked there. Anyway, glad I could answer your question. Good luck in your flying career.

 

[fr8r]

Well it was when I worked there. Anyway, glad I could answer your question. Good luck in your flying career.

So you are telling me that I should do everything a POI says... I don't think so. If that's how the aviation world were run, then we would be in big trouble. Let me just give you an example: The challenger crash in TEB. They were doing what one FSDO said was okay, because that is how that FSDO interpreted the regs. The regs are the regs. Some aren't easy to understand, but it doesn't mean that you should just ask your POI, and that's the end of the line. That will get you in a lot of trouble. I am not saying that you shouldn't ask them, but take it for what it's worth. They (Feds) are human too.