250 Below 10

[JoePa]

Are controllers permitted to waive the 250 below 10 restriction? Specifically a tower controller in class D? does it matter if its a military controller? I have heard a lot of opinions on this, looking for some place to back it up. Thanks

"Go State"

 

[brokeflyer]

Are controllers permitted to waive the 250 below 10 restriction? Specifically a tower controller in class D? does it matter if its a military controller? I have heard a lot of opinions on this, looking for some place to back it up. Thanks

"Go State"

If it's class D then you have to get past the 200kt restriction first. But yes, they can waive the speed restriction in class D.

 

[CA1900]

No, they aren't. Only the administrator can do that. The tower controller can waive the 200 knot Class D restriction, but not the 250 below 10,000 restriction. 91.117 is quite explicit about this:

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

 

[Singlecoil]

...and since you were wondering about military controllers, take a look at Part B above. Many commercial and military aircraft will be too heavy to (or for fighters not designed to) fly 250 knots with the flaps up, so they go faster. No permission required.

 

[mule]

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, but what aircraft are too heavy to slow to 250?

 

[cjdriver]

I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, but what aircraft are too heavy to slow to 250?

By all means, be a smarta$$, that's just frigging ridiculous. Yes, any aircraft can slow to 200. Show me one that can't.

 

[Singlecoil]

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

How about an MD-80? 747?

You do not have to put flaps out to follow the rule as indicated above. A heavy 737 can't slow to 200 and keep the flaps up, so you don't have to when flying under Class B. Just fly the minimum clean speed. An MD-80 taking off heavy will need about 260 knots clean maneuver speed. Only a dolt would leave the flaps out to comply with the 250 rule in that case.

 

[cjdriver]

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

How about an MD-80? 747?

You do not have to put flaps out to follow the rule as indicated above. A heavy 737 can't slow to 200 and keep the flaps up, so you don't have to when flying under Class B. Just fly the minimum clean speed. An MD-80 taking off heavy will need about 260 knots clean maneuver speed. Only a dolt would leave the flaps out to comply with the 250 rule in that case.

That is interesting. Do MD80's leave flaps in until clear of the airspace, or just break the restriction? Just curious.

 

[nethan]

Well they are not really "breaking the restriction" because they meet the criteria for the exemption. Nice how that works out eh?

 

[brokeflyer]

No, they aren't. Only the administrator can do that. The tower controller can waive the 200 knot Class D restriction, but not the 250 below 10,000 restriction. 91.117 is quite explicit about this:

(a) Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below 10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.).

(b) Unless otherwise authorized or required by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft at or below 2,500 feet above the surface within 4 nautical miles of the primary airport of a Class C or Class D airspace area at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph.). This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operations within a Class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section.

(c) No person may operate an aircraft in the airspace underlying a Class B airspace area designated for an airport or in a VFR corridor designated through such a Class B airspace area, at an indicated airspeed of more than 200 knots (230 mph).

(d) If the minimum safe airspeed for any particular operation is greater than the maximum speed prescribed in this section, the aircraft may be operated at that minimum speed.

yeah i figured i was right.

 

[JoePa]

Thanks for the info and ref to the reg's. Does anyone know if military controllers have 'permission' from the administrator to waive speed restrictions? much like the those restrictions are removed in MOA's/restricted areas and specific low level routes? thanks again.

 

[Say Again Over]

yeah i figured i was right by brokeflyer

Right? Right about what, controllers do not have the authority to allow you to exceed 250 below 10K, how many times does this subject have to be debated?

By all means, be a smarta$$, that's just frigging ridiculous. Yes, any aircraft can slow to 200. Show me one that can't.

I don't fly the Whale, but I believe they occasionally need to operate at a higher speed on departure, the PIC has the authority to do this, see paragraph (d).

 

[Father Jack]

B-777200-LR on climb out, 260kias.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I think this airspeed refers to the "CLEAN AIRSPEED". ATC does not expect large aircraft to get dirty early. You will here this is ATL quite a bit. The Heavy guys coming in declining the speed reduction.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

We cleaned up at 210kts on departure in the Avro. That was the normal procedures for the airplane even if we were departing C or D airspace. The 200kts rule didn't apply because of the needs of the airplane.