2300 signatures and counting!

[Fast43]

Outsider looking in here:

IF the solution to all of this integration mess was better fencing, why on earth did you (US) go to arbitration.

I keep reading posts by (US) folks about what should have been done and what could nave been done to more evenly and equitably arrive at merged list. My question is, why weren't these things actually negotiated?

In the end, this is clearly a failure to negotiate. That failure does not rest with the Arbitrator, nor with ALPA. It rests with those chosen to negotiate, and by default, those who sent them.

Thank You for putting it in a nutshell. However what is common sense to most everyone is in fact illogical to the MEC reps in the east. This can't be their fault, it's everyone else's (ALPA, Nic's, West Mec) fault because they didn't give us what we wanted. Their membership should be pissed that their leaders who were entrusted with the responsibility to look out for them didn't take a hard look at merger policy and say "gee where are we at risk here and lets find a way to minimize it" (fences) but instead we had pompous proclaimations no negotiations whatsoever. Even after the Arbitrator told them that their plan would not work!!!

And now after misrepresenting their guys for so long, impractical promises and failing. They have frustrated the rank and file so badly that they are virtually handing them to the yahoos at USAPA who are also misreprsenting the likelyhood of switching unions to beat the award.

I suppose they believe that if they drag the West into USAPA that they will just as blindly submit to what ever they decree as the east guys have done.

 

[PositiveRate]

They can't even get their guys to donate to USAPA. It's a lost cause...they issued an email basically begging for money and talking about how their lawyers are only working for half pay, blah blah blah.

They're not going to drag us into anything. They've made so many false assumptions, it's amazing. You can't just pull off a hostile union change for the express purpose of harming the minority group. Again...staggering arrogance.

 

[weasel_lips]

They can't even get their guys to donate to USAPA. It's a lost cause...they issued an email basically begging for money and talking about how their lawyers are only working for half pay, blah blah blah.

ALPA has never asked you for any money?

 

[PHXFLYR]

They can't even get their guys to donate to USAPA. It's a lost cause...they issued an email basically begging for money and talking about how their lawyers are only working for half pay, blah blah blah.

They're not going to drag us into anything. They've made so many false assumptions, it's amazing. You can't just pull off a hostile union change for the express purpose of harming the minority group. Again...staggering arrogance.

.....and ignorance

PHXFLYR

 

[weasel_lips]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LandGreen
I am sure there is someone out there that will spend the 20 minutes to research and compare safety records????


Since 8/1/1983 (AWA was born)............


USAir - 7 fatal accidents - 234 Fatalities

America West - 0 fatal accidents - 0 Fatalities


All of the accidents since 1983 at USAir happened between 1989 and 1994. Was that during the PSA merger? I hope that this trend does not reappear with this integration...........

Right, Wrong, or Indifferent - BE SAFE out there !!!



From a previous post about the AWA "Rookies"

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html

America's Worst Airline?
Alan Farnham, 06.11.01


We scoured tons of data on canceled flights, lost luggage, staff rudeness and more to find which carrier is worst at what. And the loser is...

Based on five criteria-complaints, lost luggage, comfort, denied boardings and on-time flights-America West ranks worst among the top ten carriers. Its score of 43.8 means it fared, on average, only 44% as well as the top airline in each category in the year 2000. Delta ranks best.
see America's Worst Airline: The Forbes Index
AMERICAWEST 43.8

America West. Even in an industry rife with screwups, crummy service and dissembling, America West stands out as a paragon of badness. It ranks worst in customer complaints, worst in lost luggage, worst in cabin comfort and next-to-worst in on-time performance. It has one thing going for it: In denied boardings (bumping ticketed passengers because a flight is oversold), it is somewhat less bad than the average airline.

To its credit, this beleaguered carrier, founded in 1983 by former Continental executive Michael Conway and Phoenix accountant Edward Beauvais, is the only airline to become a major player among 150 startups formed after the airlines were deregulated in 1978. But America West's "debits" are daunting (see box, A Bad Airline Repents, p.112).

The FAA slammed it with a $5 million fine in 1998 for maintenance violations, the largest such fine ever levied. AmWest (nyse: AWA - news - people ) later paid a reduced amount ($2.5 million), settling charges that included flying 41,000 flights using 17 planes that were overdue for structural inspection.

The AmWest scrapbook includes some doozies. The carrier has stranded Bruce Babbitt and broken stewardesses' legs (in an onboard mishap). It has belittled a blind woman and engaged in behavior that some passengers deem to be racial profiling. In one incident of air rage the perpetrator was found to be an America West pilot, traveling off-duty.

Yet AmWest is only the worst in a field crowded with incompetence. The major carriers have turned business travel into an inescapable evil--a hair shirt with wings. You call an airline and are told your flight will take off on time, only to arrive at the airport and be kept waiting for hours. The food is awful, when you can get any, and thousands upon thousands of bags are misplaced or lost (see Baggage, p. 108). Airline seats seem designed for stick figures (see Comfort; p. 110). Complain about any of this and you risk arrest (see box, Seething on a Jet Plane, p. 106).

Statistics on poor performance understate reality. What looks bad actually is worse. Carriers have four ways of defining when a jet leaves "on time"; one way logs a flight as punctual even if it sits for hours on the tarmac (see On Time, p. 115). In 1999, under pressure from Congress, the airlines made new "customer service commitments," but most don't go beyond what the law already requires. Prompt refunds? They've been mandated for two decades.

Relief won't come soon. Many problems are intractable: too few runways, too few airports, too many flights, outdated technology for air traffic control. The best a business traveler can do, for now, is to plot defensively. Toward that end we have identified which airlines are worst at what. If lost bags push you over the edge, read on and you'll know which carrier to shun.

By our measure, America West is worst overall (see "Methodology," p. 115), but your own weighting might be different. Go online to www.forbes.com/airlines, and an interactive version of these rankings will let you define your own worst (and best) carrier. Key in your priorities--comfort over complaints, or on-time arrivals ahead of baggage handling. Expanded charts rank all ten carriers in each performance category.

 

[cactusboy53]

No name calling...just some thoughts:

OK. You're an east pilot, and you are upset and feel cheated. You have that 2301st card sitting in your hand, getting ready to send it the chipster.

1. Signing the card and sending it in will cost you $0.
2. The new union representation is asking for $$ (card signer's , yes; people willing to pony up cash...not so many).
3. IF new representation is achieved: The Nicolau award still stands...according to law.

And most importantly, don't for get the WHAT IF....
4. Parker announces a new merge with (??UAL??) another ALPA carrier. Will the ALPA merger policy apply, and the process??? NO. The larger body may prevail. Do you really want to leave that to chance??

 

[Green]

So in debating safety records you choose to point out how AWA had terrible customer service, baggage handling, etc in the year 2001. What does that have to do with an airline's safety record or pilot skills/judgement? Since when do pilots have any control over scheduling, rampers, baggage handling facilities, etc...?

 

[cactusboy53]

Weasel;
Your commentary only shows that AWA operates on a shoestring budget, upsets some, carries many, and yet remains safe.

OK. So some passengers are upset because we lost a bag out of 100,000 or some such problem. As they leave the CSR, they remark..."I'll never fly you again...(unless you are the least expensive alternative!!")!!


Welcome to the NEW US AIRWAYS....THE LOW COST CARRIER extrodinaire!uke:

 

[weasel_lips]

You guys (West FO’s) claim how great AWA was prior to the merger; the article provides evidence to the contrary.

I simply did a google.com search for “worst airline”, and America West came up #1 in the search results.

 

[Fast43]

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2001/0611/105.html

America's Worst Airline?
Alan Farnham, 06.11.01


We scoured tons of data on canceled flights, lost luggage, staff rudeness and more to find which carrier is worst at what. And the loser is...

Based on five criteria-complaints, lost luggage, comfort, denied boardings and on-time flights-America West ranks worst among the top ten carriers. Its score of 43.8 means it fared, on average, only 44% as well as the top airline in each category in the year 2000. Delta ranks best.
see America's Worst Airline: The Forbes Index
AMERICAWEST 43.8

America West. Even in an industry rife with screwups, crummy service and dissembling, America West stands out as a paragon of badness. It ranks worst in customer complaints, worst in lost luggage, worst in cabin comfort and next-to-worst in on-time performance. It has one thing going for it: In denied boardings (bumping ticketed passengers because a flight is oversold), it is somewhat less bad than the average airline.

To its credit, this beleaguered carrier, founded in 1983 by former Continental executive Michael Conway and Phoenix accountant Edward Beauvais, is the only airline to become a major player among 150 startups formed after the airlines were deregulated in 1978. But America West's "debits" are daunting (see box, A Bad Airline Repents, p.112).

The FAA slammed it with a $5 million fine in 1998 for maintenance violations, the largest such fine ever levied. AmWest (nyse: AWA - news - people ) later paid a reduced amount ($2.5 million), settling charges that included flying 41,000 flights using 17 planes that were overdue for structural inspection.

The AmWest scrapbook includes some doozies. The carrier has stranded Bruce Babbitt and broken stewardesses' legs (in an onboard mishap). It has belittled a blind woman and engaged in behavior that some passengers deem to be racial profiling. In one incident of air rage the perpetrator was found to be an America West pilot, traveling off-duty.

Yet AmWest is only the worst in a field crowded with incompetence. The major carriers have turned business travel into an inescapable evil--a hair shirt with wings. You call an airline and are told your flight will take off on time, only to arrive at the airport and be kept waiting for hours. The food is awful, when you can get any, and thousands upon thousands of bags are misplaced or lost (see Baggage, p. 108). Airline seats seem designed for stick figures (see Comfort; p. 110). Complain about any of this and you risk arrest (see box, Seething on a Jet Plane, p. 106).

Statistics on poor performance understate reality. What looks bad actually is worse. Carriers have four ways of defining when a jet leaves "on time"; one way logs a flight as punctual even if it sits for hours on the tarmac (see On Time, p. 115). In 1999, under pressure from Congress, the airlines made new "customer service commitments," but most don't go beyond what the law already requires. Prompt refunds? They've been mandated for two decades.

Relief won't come soon. Many problems are intractable: too few runways, too few airports, too many flights, outdated technology for air traffic control. The best a business traveler can do, for now, is to plot defensively. Toward that end we have identified which airlines are worst at what. If lost bags push you over the edge, read on and you'll know which carrier to shun.

By our measure, America West is worst overall (see "Methodology," p. 115), but your own weighting might be different. Go online to www.forbes.com/airlines, and an interactive version of these rankings will let you define your own worst (and best) carrier. Key in your priorities--comfort over complaints, or on-time arrivals ahead of baggage handling. Expanded charts rank all ten carriers in each performance category.

Indeed a very informative post. But I believe you miss the point. Bad Customer sevice is one thing, and Customers dying while recieving said customer service is quite another.