200 knots below Class B

[Indapool]

As far as I can remember, and it has been a while, the only exception to the 307 @ 14,000 for a 20\30 series lear are those that have the 307 Kt vmo at all times. I did some work in a 25C that had it. Now THAT was a pain in the A$$ in a descent

Now I get to drive a Hawker 700 and I couldn't hit VMO/MMO without first pointing it straight at the ground at 100% N1


But at least we get to climb out at 230 Kts to .63 WOOT!!

 

[AV8OR]

I've only been asked one time to deviate from the below 10/250 restriction....9/11. FL330 enroute to BDL. ATC says descend to 11,000ft. turn left to a heading of 240 this will be vectors to the visual runway 28 approach. As I descended through 12000, ATC says to give them best rate to 4000 and max forward speed. I asked if they wanted me at 250 below 10 and they replied "Negative, disregard the speed restriction, maximum forward speed, we need to get you on the ground. Any aircraft currently aloft are considered a potential threat and may be possibly interecepted and shot down." I know I was doing at least 330 at about 4000'.

Also, at one time the Houston area had a max forward speed below 10 trial going on. Is it still?

 

[Headwind]

As far as I know, Huston is the only place you can go faster than 250 below 10, and be legal. It was approved by the admnistrator.

 

[banned username 2]

lol! The funny part about stirring crap up around here is that I never fail to learn something in the ensuing backlash. Vmo and Mmo? I wouldn't have known about them if I hadn't have picked on Falcon Capt's ride.

Hehehehe... did you expect anything less????

Still waiting for that Lunch at the Salt Lick!

 

[vixin]

ATC does not have the authority to have you go above 250 below 10,000. If they request and you do it you can still be violated. With the exception to Houston and they have to give the clearance for it.

 

[hopeful]

Hogdriver,

I think someone must have eatin too many beans before the picture was taken for your avatar. The lav just exploded.

 

[hogdriver00]

No way

No way baby! We were gettin the number.

 

[jetdriven]

naw you guys are way off. There is a SFAR which addresses the Houston Class B speed limit.

You can exceed 250 KIAS on departure from the Houston Class B if you are told the words "no speed limit"

this is to reduce congestion, and it works.

 

[FracPilot]

Speed limits

ATC does not have the authority to have you go above 250 below 10,000. If they request and you do it you can still be violated.

There is one exception to this rule. Military controllers, working military airspace, can allow you to exceed the 250 below 10k speed limit. The problem is they will not tell you when you are approaching civilian airspace so you can slow down. Another problem is that some areas that are civilian airspace but are worked by military controllers...an example of this is the area that Joshua Approach controls north of Los Angeles. You cannot legally exceed 250 below 10k unless you are within one of the Restricted areas, or within a certain area east of Palmdale Vortac(which is not depicted on our charts).

To be safe, I fly 250 or less under 10k. The only exception is departing IAH when they say "no speed limit".

 

[Postflight]

Learjet Vmo

Re: Learjet Vmo.

LJ35 (w/FC200 autopilot:
Vmo below 14,000': 307 KIAS
above 8,000': 359 KIAS
Mmo: 0.83 Mi
(above airspeeds are 300, 350, 0.81 respectively in calibrated airspeed)

LJ35 (w/FC530 autopilot):
Vmo below 8,000': 300 KIAS
above 8,000': 350 KIAS
Mmo: 0.81 Mi

LJ55b: same as FC530 equiped LJ35

LJ31a:
Vmo: 325 KIAS (all altitudes)
Mmo: 0.81 Mi

 

[CatYaaak]

Actually CE-750 Vmo is:
350kts. from 8,000 ft - 30,650 ft.
270kts. below 8,000 ft.
.

What a bummer that must be, watching Westwinds pull away (365 kts.)

 

[750driver]

What a bummer that must be, watching Westwinds pull away (365 kts.)

I just keep telling myself ..." we'll catch them down the road!" In all seriousness, it really is an operational limit, not structural. This was according to the Cessna R&D Pilots we spoke to in class.

 

[AV8OR]

Nobody was watching us pull away that day. We were one of the very last to land at BWI. It was like a ghost town.

 

[JetPilot500]

I just keep telling myself ..." we'll catch them down the road!" In all seriousness, it really is an operational limit, not structural. This was according to the Cessna R&D Pilots we spoke to in class.

At Flight Safety we watched a video of the Falcon Test pilots flying a Falcon 50. They got that thing darn close to Mach 1. Hands off the wheel with the autopilot off. No Mach-Tuck, Aileron Buzz or any adverse flying characteristics for that matter. I've been told that all Falcons actually exceed Mach 1 during flight testing. So as far as the Falcon goes, they could have a Mach .98 limit if they wanted. So I guess Mach .86 is just an "operational limit" as well.

But hey, Limits are Limits.

JetPilot500

 

[750driver]

At Flight Safety we watched a video of the Falcon Test pilots flying a Falcon 50. They got that thing darn close to Mach 1. Hands off the wheel with the autopilot off. No Mach-Tuck, Aileron Buzz or any adverse flying characteristics for that matter. I've been told that all Falcons actually exceed Mach 1 during flight testing. So as far as the Falcon goes, they could have a Mach .98 limit if they wanted. So I guess Mach .86 is just an "operational limit" as well. But hey, Limits are Limits.

JetPilot500

The Cessna engineering pilots we met in Wichita told us that the X made it past mach 1 in testing also. That was not a problem, given the proper amount of thrust. The engine output is rated at 6442lbs per side (newer models have increase thrust rating), but the Allison AE-3007C's are capable of much more power. They have obviously been limited for longevity.

I guess one of the big issues with going past mach is the effect of the shock wave pressure on the fan section. There are concerns related to repetitive fan blade stress etc. This was just one aspect and we all know there are other engineering issues that must be addressed.

I have no doubt that the Falcon can do it. That brand has always been one of my personal favorites .... kind of like a wolf in sheep's clothing