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20 more 777's for Delta

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We currently crew those at 19 crews each, or 38 pilots.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
C-150ETOPS said:
Any comments in the clip about repaying the taxpayers for Delta's PBGC bill?

Guess not.
Click to expand...

Guess you didn't hear. The PBGC was paid back in full thanks to the claim sale. USAir's bid on Delta caused the claim to rise and it pretty much paid it in full. Ask FDJ2 for the full details. Any more questions?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
I'm glad management made these official at the same time the merger was announced. They now pay considerably more than the 787's NWA will get. Along with already having twice the number of wide bodies, the 737's coming on board and the higher pay rates in general I think this could be good for when everything goes to arbitration.
 
Superpilot92:

Is this the order the NWA MEC did not want to provide credit for? Is this why negotiations broke down over future order options?
 
~~~^~~~ said:
Superpilot92:

Is this the order the NWA MEC did not want to provide credit for? Is this why negotiations broke down over future order options?
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Dare I say that Delta may, <gasp>, begin hiring again?

Funny thing about being "in bed" with the CEO as some like to pontificate, during that post-coital bliss a lot of pillow talk flows back and forth. Don't blame the messenger here gents, your MEC knew this was happening. If indeed today makes the PID, guess what just happened to Delta's career expectations. Hint: early 90s hires to late 90s hires are going to be 777 captains in the next 3 years.
 
Puff:

It is amazing the degree that the NWA guys simply do not trust anything. On the other thread they want to convince everyone furloughs are coming when management this morning had good reasons for thinking that this merger would result in better utilization of the NWA fleet and the need for NWA's 747's in the Delta network. With staffing as lean as it has been, there probably will be more hiring.
 
Puff,

And where do you think a 95 hire at nw should fit in? Do you think those 777s are going to fly new routes or replace ours? If you are saying a fair integration is going to have late 90s rds flying 777 capt that would make our late 80s and later nb capts or fos. I have talked to 3 reps and they all said dalpas fair integration would have left around 30 nw pilots in wb capt seats in 10 years. Now even the general would have to admit that is not fair. I do think this divided scenario was what Anderson wanted all along. It has worked very well for nw mgt the last 20 years by keeping the pilots fighting each other instead of them. Hopefully this won't happen here but I am not very optomistic. I will let you buy me beer though:beer:



PuffDriver said:
Dare I say that Delta may, <gasp>, begin hiring again?

Funny thing about being "in bed" with the CEO as some like to pontificate, during that post-coital bliss a lot of pillow talk flows back and forth. Don't blame the messenger here gents, your MEC knew this was happening. If indeed today makes the PID, guess what just happened to Delta's career expectations. Hint: early 90s hires to late 90s hires are going to be 777 captains in the next 3 years.
Click to expand...
 
~~~^~~~ said:
Puff:

It is amazing the degree that the NWA guys simply do not trust anything. On the other thread they want to convince everyone furloughs are coming when management this morning had good reasons for thinking that this merger would result in better utilization of the NWA fleet and the need for NWA's 747's in the Delta network. With staffing as lean as it has been, there probably will be more hiring.
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily blame them, we have had our fair share of reneging at Delta as well, from union and management. NWA pilots have known nothing BUT mistrust at all ends. Indeed, I have gone from dissenter to supporter, as my MEC and new CEO have gradually regained my trust because they have come through on their promises. In time, I am confident that the NWA pilots will realize that pain will have to be shared in exchange for security, trust will have to be granted some times, and that the Delta pilots are a great group of guys with very diverse backgrounds. I personally think that the meshing of our two groups will create a finely led group with just a slight hint of being a little more militant. I actually look forward to it. We have a hurdle to get over, however.
 
PuffDriver said:
I don't necessarily blame them, we have had our fair share of reneging at Delta as well, from union and management. NWA pilots have known nothing BUT mistrust at all ends. Indeed, I have gone from dissenter to supporter, as my MEC and new CEO have gradually regained my trust because they have come through on their promises.
Click to expand...


Lets see, our CEO said there would be no merger when he came aboard and our MEC said the line in the sand was 70 seats. The ATL Capt. rep. said the merger was dead about one month ago! And you trust them? I bet you will be a yes voter on this deal which does not even keep up with inflation.
 
Cobraair75drvr said:
Puff,

And where do you think a 95 hire at nw should fit in? Do you think those 777s are going to fly new routes or replace ours? If you are saying a fair integration is going to have late 90s rds flying 777 capt that would make our late 80s and later nb capts or fos. I have talked to 3 reps and they all said dalpas fair integration would have left around 30 nw pilots in wb capt seats in 10 years. Now even the general would have to admit that is not fair. I do think this divided scenario was what Anderson wanted all along. It has worked very well for nw mgt the last 20 years by keeping the pilots fighting each other instead of them. Hopefully this won't happen here but I am not very optomistic. I will let you buy me beer though:beer:
Click to expand...

Where should a 95 hire fit in? Not my job to decide that. We have late 96 hires in the let seat of the 76ER in NY. Is it fair to displace them? I will give you this much: ALPA is an absolute worthless entity where this issue is concerned. They have really blown it in this section by not having hard and fast rules where integration is concerned.

Nonetheless, we are where we are. I think that you are right in that your DOH means something. I think that Delta pilots are right in that our relative seniority means something. The answer is somewhere in the middle. It is going to be tough for you to have to swallow a bit of a seniority flush from what you expect, but you pay, security, retirement, are all going to rise exponentially and you should do it. It will be tough for me to accept that I will stagnate, my pay goes up less, my security goes up more, my retirement goes up less and that I should do it.

I do not think that Anderson wants a divided group at all, at least not on this issue. What looks like a cut and run by the Delta pilots can be looked at from another way. Yes, something needed to be done to get your leadership off its hard nosed stance. Ok, now think about what happens next. No combining of the companies has occurred. Hopefully a deal can be reached. If so, done deal. If not, per ALPA merger policy, a PID is set. Policy Integration Date. The date that the two carriers became 1. From there a specific timeline is set for exchanging lists, then negotiating, possibly mediating, then arbitrating. Finally, a list is hammered, and it is binding. Then a joint contract is negotiated. This is where it gets interesting. The Delta pilot agreement is merely an interim agreement. Perhaps, just perhaps, the JOINT contract can springboard off of this contract in order to create additional compensation for Delta from where our interim contract starts, and of course allow NWA SUBSTANTIAL increases in compensation from where they are now. The big question is where does the PID start? I would have to see the agreement in order to see that. I do not know how long our agreement allows the two companies to be operated independently. Perhaps more will come out in todays broadcast.

Bottom line, I urge you to really think it through. I don't have all of the answers, and I could be wrong on things. All I can base my opinions on is what I have been told from the horses mouths, and they have come through on EVERYTHING they have said so far. That leads me from outright mistrust to a trust-but-verify position.

I will reiterate that your DOH means something, and my relative seniority also means something.
 
800Dog said:
Lets see, our CEO said there would be no merger when he came aboard and our MEC said the line in the sand was 70 seats. The ATL Capt. rep. said the merger was dead about one month ago! And you trust them? I bet you will be a yes voter on this deal which does not even keep up with inflation.
Click to expand...

I have yet to vote yes on any deal offered here at Delta, save the merger fund and EVERY deal to offer support for furloughed pilots. I never said anything about trust. I said trust-but-verify. Our CEO said that he was NOT brought on board to facilitate a merger. He never said that there will not be one. Our MEC has been in a position of POSTURING for awhile now. If you actually spoke to one of them, you would know that.

Will I vote in favor of LOA19? I don't know, I do not have enough information. Have you already committed to a no? Have you seen how many airlines have fallen, and have you seen where oil is headed? Your post smells suspiciously of the AA pilots demanding a 50% raise while their company is bleeding. Now if we are talking an SOS until a standard contract with a NSL list, count me in.
 
Where is ALPA NATIONAL on this??

NW guys need to look at ALPA bylaws...and at sometime uses them!!

Should use Date-of-Hire...you can not control when you were born, and reached 25-30 and got your pilot ratings and got a job. Tell me what you have done to control this=NOTHING no dog in this fight..
 
I think the real problem was that nothing was or could be presented to the pilots so all we could go on was rumors. We have what we hear and you guys had what you were being told. You can see where the problems came in. Instead of ALPA working with ALPA we had DAL vs NWA. We need to be working together and hopefully that process will start to happen. The webcast is giving alot of information that we were actually thinking and speculating about.

ON that note it looks like a big shift is about to come on the regional side also. Interesting stuff
 
I for one refuse to be miserable. If we are forced into this marraige, than lets make the best of it and and save the animosity for the management.
 
p3flteng said:
I for one refuse to be miserable. If we are forced into this marraige, than lets make the best of it and and save the animosity for the management.
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Thats a fantastic idea, I am in the same boat now also. :beer:
 
Personally,
We can fight it and get nothing, or we can go along with it and get a lot.
Not just money, but job security. What is that worth to you?
To me it is worth more than a 5% pay raise. Knowing that DAL/NWA will PROBABLY be able to weather this storm makes me sleep a lot better at night. I am sure that there are a lot of pilots out there that wish that they could say the same.
 
ACL.....I've watched all the Cnbc clips, read everything on Deltanet and Lee's letter....I see no where any mention of the additional 20 777's....where am I missing it?

Ps: I ran all the #'s thru flightsalary.com and this makes an additional 1.7 million in career earning for me as a new hire...VERY roughly, give or take a 100K.
 
andyd said:
ACL.....I've watched all the Cnbc clips, read everything on Deltanet and Lee's letter....I see no where any mention of the additional 20 777's....where am I missing it?
Click to expand...
I saw it in the the videos on DeltaNet that have Richard and Ed talking. It's the "Unprecedented benefits for Employees." video if you don't want to watch all of them.
 
oops, duplicate post.
 
It going to be DOH with some fences. Thank god this thing went thru. Now it's time to trim capacity and get the pricing power of tickets up.
 
iaflyer said:
I saw it in the the videos on DeltaNet that have Richard and Ed talking. It's the "Unprecedented benefits for Employees." video if you don't want to watch all of them.
Click to expand...

He did not say we have exercised options. They EXPECT to exercise options on 20 wide bodies and the EXPECT no layoffs of frontline employees. A little paranoid I know but nothing is firm.
 

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