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2 weeks notice, why?

tjsatter

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I'm quitting soon (but not soon enough) to go to EJA. I have no legal obligation to give any notice whatsoever to my current employer. At a prior job I did once upon a time but not now. Where does this "two weeks notice" thing come from? Is it in any sense real or what? Why? Do I have a moral or ethical obligation in any sense to give any notice?

I've never seen any evidence whatsoever of any reciprocal sense of obligation on the part of companies when they decide that they no longer require a persons services, zero notice is the norm with any warning coming through via rumour mode. I feel zero obligation on my part in this area, it's just business. They've been good to me and no hard feelings, it's just time to go.

I have seen also companies fire people on the giving of notice or otherwise make their last days as unpleasant as possible. I'm not trying to hurt anybody or burn bridges, I don't care for long goodbyes, I just need to go.

20+ years in business has made me very hard on this subject, opinions?

tj
 

Andy Neill

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Have you seen other pilots fired on the day they gave notice at your current company? I would weigh my decision on giving notice with that bit of info. If others have given notice there and were not immediately released, I would give at least two weeks notice myself.

The golden rule (the REAL one) usually works pretty well. If you would like zero notice before being released, don't give notice. If you would like at least two weeks notice before being released, I would afford that courtesy to your employer.
 

publisher

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class

You treat others as you would want to be treated.

If they have been a good employer and you know that it would be hard to replace you, I would try and give them the courtesy of notice.

There are a good many companies who have a policy that when someone says they are leaving, they do not have them stay. That really comes from the fact that it was believed that after someone has made up there mind to leave, how productive would they be. In the cases where someone performs a function such as a pilot, I usually kept them on and appreciated the notice unless they wanted to miss trips.

Class and courtesy usually beget the same. If not, I still want to look at myself that way.
 

tjsatter

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A friend here was furloughed recent at the tail end of a 24 hour on duty in uniform day. Chief pilot called him at home 2230 at night to tell him he didn't have a job anymore.

The company recently lost a major contract that had us flying about 110-130 hrs/month on a schedule. About as good as it gets for 135 I guess, and considering that we get paid by the mile even better. We all knew via rumour that it was ending a month before they officially would admit it. Layoffs were also part of the same unacknowledged rumour. Up until the last minute they would deny this.

I'll give them more notice than they warrant. Fact is I've already told them indirectly via the rumour mill that I'm out of there. That's how they inform us. The "official" notice will be old news by the time I finally give it 2 weeks short of coming off the payroll.

tj
 

Rvrrat

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giving notice

There have been some good comments made about having class, style, tact and the golden rule. Another point to consider is one's future. Not burnin bridges was mentioned, giving notice regardless of your employers response is ensuring that you are not the one lighting the match.
In CA it is state law that am employer pay outstanding wages due to the departing employee on their last day. Not giving notice creates much undue stress for all involved simply in ensuring the law is complied with. Most employers will say outright and upfront that they would be quite reluctant to hire a person who failed to give notice as such failure demonstrates an unreliable character.
 

Fr8Dog

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2day notice

I go with the 2day notice. You walk in and say I quit TODAY!!
 

beytzim

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Here's the best way to do it. You give them 2 week notice and state in the most sincere way that you're quitting for personal reasons, i.e. marital problems etc. Anything to make them think it's not them. It also helps if you don't tell them where you're going. KISS, no extra info. "I am resigning for personal reasons on Feb XX. I love working here and wish I could stay. Thank you for everything." Something like that. They will definitely ask you where you're going. Just say, "It's not important. It's for personal reasons." Don't tell other pilots in the company etc.

Good Luck.
 

Clownpilot

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LIL story

Gonna tell you a little story that is not urban legend.

I know the guy who did this.

This guy got a job from a MAJOR airline and decided to quit and tell off his boss to boot. The chief just happened to know the chief at AA and made a phone call to him about his new employee.

Wiz bang. Offer rescinded. No new job. No old job.

Take the high road. Give notice. If they fire you, who cares. Put in for 2 weeks of unemployment.

BTW I know the guy, and the chief at AA (now retired). Don't know his old boss.
Needless to say he wishes now he did things differently. How would he know these two guys knew each other, right?

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** funny unless it happens to you.
 

LearLove

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They already know

The prof. way is 2 weeks which all of us already know. However, if your leaving for a 135 (eja ect. )or 121 (regional/major ect.) then they will already know in most cases due to the 1996 PIRA. When I gave 2 weeks the boss already knew b/c ALG started the records search as soon as i accepted the job. Had a little more than a month from offer to class so he already got the paper work in the mail. This is a strong case for having all your paper work including 135/121 check ride forms at your interview. Give a copy to the new company before they do the search. I know it's not official but if the old boss tries something funny to screw you on the PRIA forms at least they'll have something.

Hope this helps
Happy Flying
 

Blueline

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At my airline, you are not elegible for rehire if you give less than two weeks notice. I believe the PRIA forms have a question whether the employee was elegible for rehire. You might have some explaining to do if the answer is no.

BL

ps: Aviation is a small world. Don't make too many enemies.
 
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Cokie907

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Giving 2 weeks is your option.

TJ:

I know what you are dealing here with 135 aviation as I have worked for three 135 operations that were of extremely questionable character. When I left the first 135 company, I gave them the customary 2 week notice plus an extra week to be a nice guy. They expressed their appreciation by badmouthing me and telling other pilots that I quit because "I could not handle the icing conditions in upstate New York." ha ha

The biggest lesson that I learned from this was that a 135 feels no loyalty to you and that you owe them nothing in return. If you do happen to feel a loyalty and anticipate wanting to return in the event something goes wrong with your future position then go ahead and give the notice. Now, when I left the last 135 operator, I felt absolutely no loyalty whatsoever. I gave them a 5 day (and a wakeup) notice which made them park an Ultra in CLT for over 10 days....ha ha. Oh well......I knew I was not going back to them regardless of what happened with my new position. They had never given any consideration to me during my 20 months of loyal service and now they were getting repaid the favor. What comes around, goes around as the saying goes.


Only you can make the decision, Sean
 

chase

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TJ,

My advice mirrors some others on here. If your desire is to continue up the ladder of aviation then I would treat your current employer with the degree of respect you would hope he would when it comes time to write a letter of recommendation or respond to an inquiry from a potential employer. As others have said, don't burn your bridges. Do the RIGHT thing & give them the notice with the degree of true information you feel is warranted. At my airline integrity is judged to be one of the most important things one can do. Your dilemma can make for a great story of how you showed integrity, even if it isn't returned by your current employer, future employers will judge you by your decisions. good luck,

chase
 

olderpilot

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two weeks notice

GIVE TWO WEEKS NOTICE!!!

First, you never know in the future who might be your next boss.

Secondly, by not giving a two week notice, the next guy who comes along will get more bad treatment from the way you left....PLEASE...this is why there are training contract out there now....because of things like this.

Third, you might not think about it now...but life does change, aviation is a very small community.... and it will COME BACK around to you. :(

Sometimes when you give a two week notice, they ask you to leave prior to that date. Give that a try.:)
 

tjsatter

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Perfect Timing!

I cannot believe my good fortune and perfect timing. This problem (2 weeks notice?) has just resolved itself. I have just been terminated, and with zero notice I might add but the onus is on them. Well actually furloughed but I'm out of here now and can collect unemployment for 2 months while I wait for the EJA job to kick in.

Seriously, the Chief Pilot called me awhile ago; bad news, business conditions suck, blah, blah, blah, gonna have to let you go. But we have the records request from EJA so we know you have another job lined up so this is probably good news for you then, eh? Yes Sir, thank you sir, it's been fun but time to move on.

I get to leave under honorable conditions, head held high and with my next (and hopefully last) job already lined up. It don't get any better than this. A 2 month paid vaction. The only downside is that I've flown the Falcon 20 for the last time yesterday. There are things I don't like about this job but the flying part is not one of them. The Falcon is one fine airplane and I will miss that part of it. I will not miss the 2am callouts!

tj
 

bobbysamd

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Giving notice

I don't know how I wound up here, but I found this to be an interesting discussion.

Most states have employment-at-will, meaning an employer can terminate you at any time, and, you can leave at any time. Neither party has to give a reason. So, you would be doing nothing wrong legally if you just walked out on a place with no notice. I work in the legal profession and have seen lawyers walk out without giving notice. In fact, some of these lawyers got their first job in my former lawfirm. You would think these people would be grateful for getting a chance, and, you would think that lawyers, being professional people who supposedly adhere to higher standards, would leave a job professionally.

This is something you should NOT do as a pilot if at all possible. You want to avoid burning bridges. I appreciate more than you can ever know the argument that employers don't give you notice of termination while they expect notice from you.

The difference lies with the hiring process. The lawyers I cited above aren't likely to face the strict background checks that pilots face. Aviation hiring is akin to getting a top-secret security clearance. This is a close-knit business and there is too much information out there that can be dug up about you. You don't want to just quit because you are likely to get a bad ref. You can omit an employer from an app, but chances are good that it'll be found out. Job apps are legal documents. Leave out vital data and you just might be canned from the new gig.

As the others said, ask if you can leave on short notice or just give notice. If you're canned on the spot, at least you can say honestly on a job app that you resigned.

Something else to reiterate is the importance of getting letters of reference from employers. These letters will document your tour with an employer, but more importantly will say things positive or neutral. I've never seen a "bad" letter of reference. I realize that many employers are idiots and stupid, but few are so stupid or inconsiderate as to write untrue or libelous things in a letter. Chances are, they'll refuse to write a letter. Presenting letters of reference at interviews may avert H.R. actually calling a company to verify employment. You can always present W-2s and/or check stubs to verify compensation and dates of employment.

Good luck with getting the job.
 
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Voice Of Reason

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Old, but timely thread with everyone quitting flops left & right....

Here's the best way to do it. You give them 2 week notice and state in the most sincere way that you're quitting for personal reasons, i.e. marital problems etc. Anything to make them think it's not them. It also helps if you don't tell them where you're going. KISS, no extra info. "I am resigning for personal reasons on Feb XX. I love working here and wish I could stay. Thank you for everything." Something like that. They will definitely ask you where you're going. Just say, "It's not important. It's for personal reasons." Don't tell other pilots in the company etc.

Good Luck.

I cannot believe my good fortune and perfect timing. This problem (2 weeks notice?) has just resolved itself. I have just been terminated, and with zero notice I might add but the onus is on them. Well actually furloughed but I'm out of here now and can collect unemployment for 2 months while I wait for the EJA job to kick in.

Seriously, the Chief Pilot called me awhile ago; bad news, business conditions suck, blah, blah, blah, gonna have to let you go. But we have the records request from EJA so we know you have another job lined up so this is probably good news for you then, eh? Yes Sir, thank you sir, it's been fun but time to move on.

I get to leave under honorable conditions, head held high and with my next (and hopefully last) job already lined up. It don't get any better than this. A 2 month paid vaction. The only downside is that I've flown the Falcon 20 for the last time yesterday. There are things I don't like about this job but the flying part is not one of them. The Falcon is one fine airplane and I will miss that part of it. I will not miss the 2am callouts!

tj

Anyone else have problems when current employer received PRIA forms?
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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The company doesn't have to give notice but its best that the pilot does.... goes to show the laws and culture favor business and companies in this country.
 

ProFracPilot

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When you are employed at will, neither party is compelled to "give notice". "Giving Notice" of your intention to leave an employer used to be the honorable thing to do. If you work for an employer who fosters goodwill among their employees, it still is the honorable thing to do. Theoretically, this notice allows the employer to plan a smooth transition to new personnel or a realignment of job responsibilities. Unfortunately, not all employees or employers are honorable. Some employers especially have become downright scumbags. Case in point: If you give the customary notice at FlOps, they will likely reward your honorable effort by terminating you immediately. Further, if you give notice to leave at the start of your tour, not only will FlOps terminate you immediately but they will also reduce your vacation bank by the 7 days you were just off. :rolleyes:

Wake up, people. We need a contract NOW!
 
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jetwash

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Just look how the company treated other pilots who gave notice. If they let them to continue to work as normal and take them out for dinner on their last day, then give them 2 weeks notice.

If they terminate the pilots on the spot (Like Flight Options) then quit when you want to.
 

Bandit60

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True story:

I interviewed for this job and the employer called me back and asked me when I could start. I told them that I had some obligations that I needed to tie up at my current job so I was not able to start for two weeks. I was told later that this call was actually a test of my character to see if I would not screw over my current employer. If I told them I was available right away (knowing I had a current job) they would not have offered me the job.

It turned out they hired me and it was the best move I have ever made.
 
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