2 or 4 year degrees

[cougar6903]

I have to decide in the next few weeks if I should go to a 2 or 4 year college for a aero science degree. Just wanted to see what the folks in the 135 cargo biz have. My ultimate goal like many is a major airline, but I would be happy with a cargo company like UPS, FDX, DHL, ABX or Atlas to retire from. Should I go for the 4 year degree right away or get the 2 year one, get "established" then go to school for the 4 year degree?

 

[UPS Capt]

My ultimate goal like many is a major airline, but I would be happy with a cargo company like UPS, FDX,

News flash.....UPS and FedEX are major airlines. Without a 4 year degree..forget it.

 

[Flywrite]

I dont mean to bust on you, as your profile paints you as an FNG (as we all were once), but there are many, many "major airline" pilots who would also be very happy at UPS or FDX (actually these are both considered Major Airlines). These are two of the most sought after jobs in the industry, even before things went south.

As for the degree...go for the 4 year. I'm fininshing mine now, wishing I had earlier.

Good Luck!

 

[Flyingdutchman]

quote:
--------
''News flash.....UPS and FedEX are major airlines. Without a 4 year degree..forget it''

-----


UPS Capt,

Is that for sure?? Is there NO way to get hired without?

g'day

 

[Flyingdutchman]

And does anyone know what the minimum qualifications are to fly the 208 with fedex?


Thanks!

g'day

 

[UPS Capt]

Is that for sure?? Is there NO way to get hired without?

Yes, there is a small chance. You have about the same chance of getting hired by UPS or FedEx without a 4 year degree as you would at United, American or Delta without one.

The reality is that about 95% of ALL major airline pilots have a 4 year degree or higher. That means you have roughly a 5% chance of being hired without one. Those are terrible odds anytime and especially post 9/11.

You want to stack the odds in your favor? Get a 4 yr degree! Doesn't matter what accredited college you attend or what your major is in. What matters is that you can check that "4 yr degree" box on the airline's application. It's merely a weeding out process and a number's game.

Ask yourself why the airline should hire you without one when they can choose from thousands of other qualified applicants who have one"?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Capt,

Indeed, and thanks for your answer..

g'day

 

[pilotyip]

4 years in college

A college degree has nothing to do with one's ability to fly an airplane, gray matter that thinks good does. JB does not require one, SWA does not require one, AirTran doesn't, Spirit doesn't, even FedEx will hire witihout a degree by givign the equivelent for life experience, one year turbine PIC ='s one year of college, completion of a military flight flight progarm equals two years of college. I have had pilots in class with 4 year degrees from major aviation university's very slow learners and failures in flight training, I have had a number of pilots with no college who were above average studnets and excellent line captain's. I would take an Army WO without degree over a 4 year degree any day.
You have to ask yourself when its comes to hiring are you better to be 23 years old with 300 hrs+ and a 4 year degree or have 2000 hours with maybe a 1000 turbin PIC becasue you started flying right out of High School. We have had a couple of these guys working for us they are now at passenger nationals flying Captain. No they probably won't get hired by a major, but how many will? Is Captain at AirTran a bottom feeder job, because it is not a "Major"?

 

[Trout]

My ultimate goal like many is a major airline, but I would be happy with a cargo company like UPS, FDX, DHL, to retire from.

I think he has it backwards, the ultimate goal is UPS, FDX, or DHL and if that falls through, then settle for a pax airline!

 

[mrvmo]

What all these guys are saying, if you can cut through all their Bull#%$t, is go ahead and get that 4 year degree. With competition the way it is right now you would be a lot better off. It would be real tough to get on at a major without one. Good luck with your decision.

 

[T-REX]

to the caravan question, FedEx requires 2000 TT and UPS feeders require 1200 TT (135 mins) to apply....But remeber those are just the application mins.

Best of luck.

 

[cujo]

Here's something to think about. Try a 2 year flight school where you'll get an A.S., and all you're certificates and ratings. Then transfer to a 4 year school to finish your degree while your instructing or flying on a part time basis. It is a good idea to get your 4 year while you are young, it's really tough to do when you get older and are working for a company full tilme. It really doesn't matter what the degree is in. But it is important and gives you something to fall back on if you need to. It is much easier to get hired to with the 4 yr. than without it.
I only have a 2 year dergee and regret not getting the 4 year when i had time.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

T-REX,

Tnx.

Pilotyip,

Your right..

g'day!

 

[Draginass]

Hiring "mins" don't mean a thing. When your competition is just as good a pilot as you, interviews just as well, and has the same or better experience, which guy do you think is going to get an interview? I'll put my money on the guy with a four year degree any day.

 

[Finch]

From a life-long student

Ihave to agree with PilotYIP-education has little to do with predicting how capable a pilot someone will be. I have seen many new pilots who think that because they have a degree, they should not have to "dirty their hands", or bother with menial tasks. They are just waiting for better times, and quite a few just sit back and take in the view.............
It is as many have said, a weeding out process used by many professions.

Many may argue this point, with good reason. 95% (perhaps more) of the pilots employed by airlines have a 4-year degree. If you believe statistics, you would be a fool to try and get any "good" job without one (Mom? Dad? I might be listening now!).

Fred Smith, CEO of Fed Ex, received a grade of "C" on his college paper, which detailed the sunrise of that revolutionary idea that became so brilliant, the Federal Express Corporation. Think about that. A "C"!

You always have to understand that any education system must have a way to measure performance, which may not be congruent with your own idea of the issue. My strategy in school was to spend the first 3 or 4 classes concentrating on the teacher. When I thought that I had them pegged, I wrote reams of stuff I thought they wanted to hear. Worked like a charm. Was I right? Not really, but I got good grades. Do I remember any of what I learned? Not much. Does it mean anything now? No.

The most important thing you will learn in school (unless it has technical applications) is how to learn. How to see more than one side of an issue. How to chase girls (did I say that out loud?). Seriously, there should be a prep school for pilots. One that would prepare them for all the real-life challenges that they will face, not some stuffy, outdated degree that exists only to be able to "check the box" on a job app. How useful would a degree that contained a syllabus like:
How to manage your money
How to organize your records, tax, will, and estate (from anywhere)
How to develop and maintain a positive attitude
How to deal with relationships (work and personal)
History on the airline business, from banner towing to flying the Space Shuttle
Conflict resolution skills
Lessons on how to change your own oil
The importance of networking (from day 1) and how to do it
Presentation and resume skills
How to print neatly
Health and physical fitness
What dispatchers like
And, flying of course!

I have found that the most important thing is to never stop learning. I feel like a "student" all the time, and it is a great way to live!

Keep the faith,
Finch

 

[cougar6903]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. Your comments and insight has been very helpful in my decision making. I think I may not have clearly stated my question in my first post. I am planning on either going to a 4 year college and majoring in aero-science or an equivalent course and getting all my ratings up to CFI or go to a 2 year school, get the ratings up to CFI 2 years earlier and then instruct by day and go to school in the evenings to finish with a 4 year degree. I'm hoping either way it would take me 4 years but if I would go to the 2 year College first I could end up with a Bachelors degree in something other than aviation and an Associates degree in Aviation, as well as about 2000 hours +/- of flying experience. Sound like a good??

 

[Idiot Police]

Re: Re: 2 or 4 year degrees

I think he has it backwards, the ultimate goal is UPS, FDX, or DHL and if that falls through, then settle for a pax airline!

Sir, I am going to have to ask you to step out of your sewer pipe... put one foot in front of the other and follow my flashlight...

Now count backwards from 99 to 76...

JAIL!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pilotyip]

playing down?

I was not playing down the importance of the 4 yr degree, all school teachers need them, and I guess most major airlines candidates. You can be a successful career pilot without a 4 yr degree. 4 yrs of flying a 700-900 hours per year will make you much more employable at age 22 than a 4 yr degree and 300 hrs. At age 30 what would you rather be a major wantabee or a senior F/O junior Captain at Spirit or AirTran, is that person an aviation failure because he does not have a 4 yr degree and a better chance at a major in the year 2007

 

[pilotyip]

There is no major future

I have a friend who followed your track, left Spirit in 1999 for a major, USAirways, if he had not taken that move he would be like #10 Spirit Captain at DTW, now he is an unemployed 45 year old pilot who not does not have 1000 turbin PIC, because of his time building in the right seat. Because of his senority he probably does not even have a shot at J4J's. Don't you guys get it there is no future at the majors. If you get hired in the next cycle starting 2007, you will behind all of the furloughe's with senority dates back into the 90's. you will be an F/O for 10-15 years. You will flying in a Cockpit like TWA in the mid 90's Capt age 58, F/O age 55, F/E age 52. Major pay is going ot be redefined and F/O's will not be 6 figure jobs, Captain at the Spirit and AirTran and JB will be. Again as far as the 4 yr degree goes if you have real degree that leads to a job, like Teaching, Nurse, Engineer something to fall back on it is a good thing, but most major airline wantabe's have aviation degrees which is not in big demand except to manage an FBO. Too much value is put on the value of 4 yr degree in avaition and it is mispalced

 

[Finch]

I couldn't agree more.....

Pilotyip, you are so right! I do have a degree, and while I would not discourage a new pilot from getting one, you have to be realistic. The majors will never be the same......who would want to be fo for their career? I wish that educators would wake up and smell the coffee-give us education that is worth more than the parchment it is printed on! Avaition degrees are just a new way for schools to capture more students, and to justify the outragous tuition cost by extolling the virtues of the degree ( the major airlines will think better of you if you have one!). If I had to do it over again, I would get a technical degree and not an abstract artsy fartsy one.

Finch