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2 or 4 year degrees
- Thread starter cougar6903
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Here's something to think about. Try a 2 year flight school where you'll get an A.S., and all you're certificates and ratings. Then transfer to a 4 year school to finish your degree while your instructing or flying on a part time basis. It is a good idea to get your 4 year while you are young, it's really tough to do when you get older and are working for a company full tilme. It really doesn't matter what the degree is in. But it is important and gives you something to fall back on if you need to. It is much easier to get hired to with the 4 yr. than without it.
I only have a 2 year dergee and regret not getting the 4 year when i had time.
I only have a 2 year dergee and regret not getting the 4 year when i had time.
Flyingdutchman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2002
- Posts
- 1,571
From a life-long student
Ihave to agree with PilotYIP-education has little to do with predicting how capable a pilot someone will be. I have seen many new pilots who think that because they have a degree, they should not have to "dirty their hands", or bother with menial tasks. They are just waiting for better times, and quite a few just sit back and take in the view.............
It is as many have said, a weeding out process used by many professions.
Many may argue this point, with good reason. 95% (perhaps more) of the pilots employed by airlines have a 4-year degree. If you believe statistics, you would be a fool to try and get any "good" job without one (Mom? Dad? I might be listening now!).
Fred Smith, CEO of Fed Ex, received a grade of "C" on his college paper, which detailed the sunrise of that revolutionary idea that became so brilliant, the Federal Express Corporation. Think about that. A "C"!
You always have to understand that any education system must have a way to measure performance, which may not be congruent with your own idea of the issue. My strategy in school was to spend the first 3 or 4 classes concentrating on the teacher. When I thought that I had them pegged, I wrote reams of stuff I thought they wanted to hear. Worked like a charm. Was I right? Not really, but I got good grades. Do I remember any of what I learned? Not much. Does it mean anything now? No.
The most important thing you will learn in school (unless it has technical applications) is how to learn. How to see more than one side of an issue. How to chase girls (did I say that out loud?). Seriously, there should be a prep school for pilots. One that would prepare them for all the real-life challenges that they will face, not some stuffy, outdated degree that exists only to be able to "check the box" on a job app. How useful would a degree that contained a syllabus like:
How to manage your money
How to organize your records, tax, will, and estate (from anywhere)
How to develop and maintain a positive attitude
How to deal with relationships (work and personal)
History on the airline business, from banner towing to flying the Space Shuttle
Conflict resolution skills
Lessons on how to change your own oil
The importance of networking (from day 1) and how to do it
Presentation and resume skills
How to print neatly
Health and physical fitness
What dispatchers like
And, flying of course!
I have found that the most important thing is to never stop learning. I feel like a "student" all the time, and it is a great way to live!
Keep the faith,
Finch
Ihave to agree with PilotYIP-education has little to do with predicting how capable a pilot someone will be. I have seen many new pilots who think that because they have a degree, they should not have to "dirty their hands", or bother with menial tasks. They are just waiting for better times, and quite a few just sit back and take in the view.............
It is as many have said, a weeding out process used by many professions.
Many may argue this point, with good reason. 95% (perhaps more) of the pilots employed by airlines have a 4-year degree. If you believe statistics, you would be a fool to try and get any "good" job without one (Mom? Dad? I might be listening now!).
Fred Smith, CEO of Fed Ex, received a grade of "C" on his college paper, which detailed the sunrise of that revolutionary idea that became so brilliant, the Federal Express Corporation. Think about that. A "C"!
You always have to understand that any education system must have a way to measure performance, which may not be congruent with your own idea of the issue. My strategy in school was to spend the first 3 or 4 classes concentrating on the teacher. When I thought that I had them pegged, I wrote reams of stuff I thought they wanted to hear. Worked like a charm. Was I right? Not really, but I got good grades. Do I remember any of what I learned? Not much. Does it mean anything now? No.
The most important thing you will learn in school (unless it has technical applications) is how to learn. How to see more than one side of an issue. How to chase girls (did I say that out loud?). Seriously, there should be a prep school for pilots. One that would prepare them for all the real-life challenges that they will face, not some stuffy, outdated degree that exists only to be able to "check the box" on a job app. How useful would a degree that contained a syllabus like:
How to manage your money
How to organize your records, tax, will, and estate (from anywhere)
How to develop and maintain a positive attitude
How to deal with relationships (work and personal)
History on the airline business, from banner towing to flying the Space Shuttle
Conflict resolution skills
Lessons on how to change your own oil
The importance of networking (from day 1) and how to do it
Presentation and resume skills
How to print neatly
Health and physical fitness
What dispatchers like
And, flying of course!
I have found that the most important thing is to never stop learning. I feel like a "student" all the time, and it is a great way to live!
Keep the faith,
Finch
cougar6903
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
- Posts
- 276
Thanks to everyone who has replied. Your comments and insight has been very helpful in my decision making. I think I may not have clearly stated my question in my first post. I am planning on either going to a 4 year college and majoring in aero-science or an equivalent course and getting all my ratings up to CFI or go to a 2 year school, get the ratings up to CFI 2 years earlier and then instruct by day and go to school in the evenings to finish with a 4 year degree. I'm hoping either way it would take me 4 years but if I would go to the 2 year College first I could end up with a Bachelors degree in something other than aviation and an Associates degree in Aviation, as well as about 2000 hours +/- of flying experience. Sound like a good??
pilotyip
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 13,629
playing down?
I was not playing down the importance of the 4 yr degree, all school teachers need them, and I guess most major airlines candidates. You can be a successful career pilot without a 4 yr degree. 4 yrs of flying a 700-900 hours per year will make you much more employable at age 22 than a 4 yr degree and 300 hrs. At age 30 what would you rather be a major wantabee or a senior F/O junior Captain at Spirit or AirTran, is that person an aviation failure because he does not have a 4 yr degree and a better chance at a major in the year 2007
I was not playing down the importance of the 4 yr degree, all school teachers need them, and I guess most major airlines candidates. You can be a successful career pilot without a 4 yr degree. 4 yrs of flying a 700-900 hours per year will make you much more employable at age 22 than a 4 yr degree and 300 hrs. At age 30 what would you rather be a major wantabee or a senior F/O junior Captain at Spirit or AirTran, is that person an aviation failure because he does not have a 4 yr degree and a better chance at a major in the year 2007
pilotyip
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 13,629
There is no major future
I have a friend who followed your track, left Spirit in 1999 for a major, USAirways, if he had not taken that move he would be like #10 Spirit Captain at DTW, now he is an unemployed 45 year old pilot who not does not have 1000 turbin PIC, because of his time building in the right seat. Because of his senority he probably does not even have a shot at J4J's. Don't you guys get it there is no future at the majors. If you get hired in the next cycle starting 2007, you will behind all of the furloughe's with senority dates back into the 90's. you will be an F/O for 10-15 years. You will flying in a Cockpit like TWA in the mid 90's Capt age 58, F/O age 55, F/E age 52. Major pay is going ot be redefined and F/O's will not be 6 figure jobs, Captain at the Spirit and AirTran and JB will be. Again as far as the 4 yr degree goes if you have real degree that leads to a job, like Teaching, Nurse, Engineer something to fall back on it is a good thing, but most major airline wantabe's have aviation degrees which is not in big demand except to manage an FBO. Too much value is put on the value of 4 yr degree in avaition and it is mispalced
I have a friend who followed your track, left Spirit in 1999 for a major, USAirways, if he had not taken that move he would be like #10 Spirit Captain at DTW, now he is an unemployed 45 year old pilot who not does not have 1000 turbin PIC, because of his time building in the right seat. Because of his senority he probably does not even have a shot at J4J's. Don't you guys get it there is no future at the majors. If you get hired in the next cycle starting 2007, you will behind all of the furloughe's with senority dates back into the 90's. you will be an F/O for 10-15 years. You will flying in a Cockpit like TWA in the mid 90's Capt age 58, F/O age 55, F/E age 52. Major pay is going ot be redefined and F/O's will not be 6 figure jobs, Captain at the Spirit and AirTran and JB will be. Again as far as the 4 yr degree goes if you have real degree that leads to a job, like Teaching, Nurse, Engineer something to fall back on it is a good thing, but most major airline wantabe's have aviation degrees which is not in big demand except to manage an FBO. Too much value is put on the value of 4 yr degree in avaition and it is mispalced
I couldn't agree more.....
Pilotyip, you are so right! I do have a degree, and while I would not discourage a new pilot from getting one, you have to be realistic. The majors will never be the same......who would want to be fo for their career? I wish that educators would wake up and smell the coffee-give us education that is worth more than the parchment it is printed on! Avaition degrees are just a new way for schools to capture more students, and to justify the outragous tuition cost by extolling the virtues of the degree ( the major airlines will think better of you if you have one!). If I had to do it over again, I would get a technical degree and not an abstract artsy fartsy one.
Finch
Pilotyip, you are so right! I do have a degree, and while I would not discourage a new pilot from getting one, you have to be realistic. The majors will never be the same......who would want to be fo for their career? I wish that educators would wake up and smell the coffee-give us education that is worth more than the parchment it is printed on! Avaition degrees are just a new way for schools to capture more students, and to justify the outragous tuition cost by extolling the virtues of the degree ( the major airlines will think better of you if you have one!). If I had to do it over again, I would get a technical degree and not an abstract artsy fartsy one.
Finch
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