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191 Early Out retirement takers at DL

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Most of the guys that went were in the 59-60 age group. Got better part of severance and medical payouts. Think I've heard there are 150+ in their last 2 years that also will be gone soon. They would have got little severance/medical. And with a net 12.5% pay increase in Jan. '13 why leave? Depending on upcoming events in the coming weeks, pilot apps may open on 1 OCT with interviews in JAN '13. But the next industry "Big Bang" may change all that which would offset the retirement/pilot shortages that are projected here at Monroe's Starship!

Can you elaborate on your rationale for that timeline?

Interviews in the month of January would get people into class in February-March-April and beyond and most of them would not get in the airplane until the summer when it's peak season.

Or does peak season not matter as much anymore with the new contract?

Just wondering the reasons behind your thoughts as I can't find any.
 
Tom, is it true when you retire they take you to a back office and reveal "the big picture"?:)
It's a picture of Genny, in a Brazilian banana hammock, with untrimmed foliage.
Most leave the office legally blind after prying their eyes out with a pickle fork.
 
Bingo. I'm saving like crazy, and trying to keep a flat standard of living. The wildcards are inflation, and how much I am taxed since I am "rich" going forward.

Give me a break. If you make 251k, you would pay the extra "rich" 3.6% income tax on 1k. One thousand dollars. One WHOLE thousand dollars.... would be a whopping 36 dollar tax increase....

And that assumes you have no deductions, which you do.

I think you will be just fine there big-shot.
 
Give me a break. If you make 251k, you would pay the extra "rich" 3.6% income tax on 1k. One thousand dollars. One WHOLE thousand dollars.... would be a whopping 36 dollar tax increase....

And that assumes you have no deductions, which you do.

I think you will be just fine there big-shot.

Isn't it when you go over 250k it bumps you into the higher tax bracket which an increase of 3.6% to a topped out tax bracket of 39.6% would mean at least an increase of $9,036 on top of the $87,500 of Just federal taxes that is being paid before any deductions. By the time you take SS, local, state, property and of course don't forget the additional TAXES as ruled by the supreme court that Obama also wants from employers, people making over $200,000, even your own "Cadillac" health insurance to help pay for Obamacare. It comes close to about 50% of your income going to taxes.

All this while around 49% pay little to no taxes.
 
It comes close to about 50% of your income going to taxes.

All this while around 49% pay little to no taxes.
And don't forget that many of the deductions start to phase out at levels below this or aren't allowed at all. Plus the wonderful AMT. That cost me $6000 a year. Had $20,000 medical bills last year, not enough to deduct any of it. Our tax system is hilarious and unfair. R E D I S T R I B U T I O N !!!!!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_wealth
 
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Isn't it when you go over 250k it bumps you into the higher tax bracket which an increase of 3.6% to a topped out tax bracket of 39.6% would mean at least an increase of $9,036 on top of the $87,500 of Just federal taxes that is being paid before any deductions. By the time you take SS, local, state, property and of course don't forget the additional TAXES as ruled by the supreme court that Obama also wants from employers, people making over $200,000, even your own "Cadillac" health insurance to help pay for Obamacare. It comes close to about 50% of your income going to taxes.

All this while around 49% pay little to no taxes.

NO!! I swear, if you are going to work you should have a basic understanding of our tax structure.

We have a system of marginal tax rates, meaning you only pay the higher rate on income above the threshold. Simple hypothetical example: Say all income below $30,000 is taxed at 10%, income from $30,000 to $250,000 is taxed at 30%, and income above $250,000 is taxed at 40%. Today you make exactly $250,000. You pay taxes at the rate of -you guessed it- 10% on your first $30,000 and 30% on your income from 30K to 250K. Now tomorrow you get a one dollar raise, and make $250,001. You will pay the exact same taxes as yesterday, except now you will pay 40% on that $1 rather than 30%. So your taxes went up by 10 cents.

This assumes you have zero exemptions or deductions. It also assumes you aren't a CEO who is paid in stock options, and only pays the capital gains rate of 15%. It also assumes you turn off Fox News long enough to learn the tax code before you write the check.

Finally, just food for thought- in the 1950's, during the biggest boom ever, during a Republican administration, we had marginal tax rates in the 80% and 90% range for extremely high incomes. Lots of factors involved in why the economy was so good then, but just pointing out that current tax rates are pretty low in relative terms.
 
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And don't forget that many of the deductions start to phase out at levels below this or aren't allowed at all. Plus the wonderful AMT. That cost me $6000 a year. Had $20,000 medical bills last year, not enough to deduct any of it. Our tax system is hilarious and unfair. R E D I S T R I B U T I O N !!!!!!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistribution_of_wealth

We have redistribution of wealth for sure; from the working, middle and even upper incomes to the "super" wealthy.

I do agree completely on the AMT. It bogus and the one part of our tax code that can actually make you end up with less cash in your pocket due to making more income.
 
NO!! I swear, if you are going to work you should have a basic understanding of our tax structure.

We have a system of marginal tax rates, meaning you only pay the higher rate on income above the threshold. Simple hypothetical example: Say all income below $30,000 is taxed at 10%, income from $30,000 to $250,000 is taxed at 30%, and income above $250,000 is taxed at 40%. Today you make exactly $250,000. You pay taxes at the rate of -you guessed it- 10% on your first $30,000 and 30% on your income from 30K to 250K. Now tomorrow you get a one dollar raise, and make $250,001. You will pay the exact same taxes as yesterday, except now you will pay 40% on that $1 rather than 30%. So your taxes went up by 10 cents.

This assumes you have zero exemptions or deductions. It also assumes you aren't a CEO who is paid in stock options, and only pays the capital gains rate of 15%. It also assumes you turn off Fox News long enough to learn the tax code before you write the check.

Finally, just food for thought- in the 1950's, during the biggest boom ever, during a Republican administration, we had marginal tax rates in the 80% and 90% range for extremely high incomes. Lots of factors involved in why the economy was so good then, but just pointing out that current tax rates are pretty low in relative terms.

Exactly right. ALL of it. If you don't understand this already, you have NO business having political/tax debates or discussions, as you don't know you head from your A$$$.
 
Isn't it when you go over 250k it bumps you into the higher tax bracket which an increase of 3.6% to a topped out tax bracket of 39.6% would mean at least an increase of $9,036 on top of the $87,500 of Just federal taxes that is being paid before any deductions. By the time you take SS, local, state, property and of course don't forget the additional TAXES as ruled by the supreme court that Obama also wants from employers, people making over $200,000, even your own "Cadillac" health insurance to help pay for Obamacare. It comes close to about 50% of your income going to taxes.

All this while around 49% pay little to no taxes.

Sorry, not correct at ALL. Your favorite "News" and "experts" has been misleading you about BASIC facts.
 
Exactly right. ALL of it. If you don't understand this already, you have NO business having political/tax debates or discussions, as you don't know you head from your A$$$.


Do you guys realize how foolish your arguments are? Marginal tax rates tax the "next dollar earned" - lets agree on the fundamentals. Your assessment of how we are taxed is mostly correct.

However - in your rich loathing dogma ideology - you fail to see how damaging those tax conditions are to productivity, wealth creation, and standard of living.

You mentioned the 1950s tax code with a 91% marginal rate above $200k. Do you realize that inflation adjusted income level is well in excess of $2 million in income today? Just so we are talking apples to apples, a person under that prior tax code making $200k then would likely have a lower effective tax rate than a person making $2 million today because the person today would have over 3/4 of their income taxed at our top marginal rate.

So if you are a small business owner who files a Schedule-C on your personal income taxes, your businesses profits are rolled into your own personal income. Lets say you are a dry cleaner. You don't need new equipment this year, but you know in two years time you will. You have to save cash for this large purchase and that cash will be personal income dollars taxed at our personal income rate. You certainly aren't wealthy or rich, as many small business owners do not take nearly the income that their small business generates in profit. They re-invest and save. However, the bottom line on their taxes each year is greatly reduced with this behemoth we call the Federal Tax Code. With a reduced bottom line their ability to reinvest, save, or even HIRE people is certainly reduced. Incidentally small business as defined by the SBA employs well in excess of 70% of our working population. Is it any wonder we cant get unemployment below 8%?

And how did our nation get wealthy in the first place? Why do we enjoy the highest standard of living the earth has ever known? You loathers are cringing when I say those words but the fact remains most households in the "99%" (hell, even the lowest 25%) have multiple automobiles, a home with walls, windows, a roof, and likely running water, heat, and even air conditioning. They eat out several times a week and enjoy food prices still relatively cheap to their income level. (In many 3rd world countries people spend nearly all their income merely on sustenance). Its likely their kids have iPods, iPhones, nike tennis shoes, they have a flat screen in the living room with cable or satellite and get picked up in a big yellow school bus to go to their free indoctrination... err education paid by society.

The point is that it is no mistake we have gotten to where we are. The only thing that produces our standard of living is productivity. And with a tax code that punishes people attempting to be productive it is no surprise we have a lack of takers. Our current tax code is a joke and I'd argue needs to be completely burned and re-written. It gives all the incentive to non-productive earners, and punishes those who stick their neck out and dare to produce.

The issues this country faces have nothing to do with "revenue". Our "revenue" today is within a percent of what it was during any of the Clinton -or- Bush years, however our spending has gone through the roof. We have collected approximately 18%+/- of GDP in tax receipts for the last two decades, but the year BO took office under all democrat house and senate our federal spending went from 19% of GDP to over 25% of GDP and has remained there throughout his term.

If we confiscate the entire wealth of the top "1%" we can fund the federal government's deficits for only a few months. Doesn't this say something about the state of our nation?

Thanks for reading.
 
I wish I had more time, but mostly disagree with most of your assertions. But at least you understand how taxes are paid, that is a start.
 
Do you guys realize how foolish your arguments are? Marginal tax rates tax the "next dollar earned" - lets agree on the fundamentals. Your assessment of how we are taxed is mostly correct.

However - in your rich loathing dogma ideology - you fail to see how damaging those tax conditions are to productivity, wealth creation, and standard of living.

You mentioned the 1950s tax code with a 91% marginal rate above $200k. Do you realize that inflation adjusted income level is well in excess of $2 million in income today? Just so we are talking apples to apples, a person under that prior tax code making $200k then would likely have a lower effective tax rate than a person making $2 million today because the person today would have over 3/4 of their income taxed at our top marginal rate.

So if you are a small business owner who files a Schedule-C on your personal income taxes, your businesses profits are rolled into your own personal income. Lets say you are a dry cleaner. You don't need new equipment this year, but you know in two years time you will. You have to save cash for this large purchase and that cash will be personal income dollars taxed at our personal income rate. You certainly aren't wealthy or rich, as many small business owners do not take nearly the income that their small business generates in profit. They re-invest and save. However, the bottom line on their taxes each year is greatly reduced with this behemoth we call the Federal Tax Code. With a reduced bottom line their ability to reinvest, save, or even HIRE people is certainly reduced. Incidentally small business as defined by the SBA employs well in excess of 70% of our working population. Is it any wonder we cant get unemployment below 8%?

And how did our nation get wealthy in the first place? Why do we enjoy the highest standard of living the earth has ever known? You loathers are cringing when I say those words but the fact remains most households in the "99%" (hell, even the lowest 25%) have multiple automobiles, a home with walls, windows, a roof, and likely running water, heat, and even air conditioning. They eat out several times a week and enjoy food prices still relatively cheap to their income level. (In many 3rd world countries people spend nearly all their income merely on sustenance). Its likely their kids have iPods, iPhones, nike tennis shoes, they have a flat screen in the living room with cable or satellite and get picked up in a big yellow school bus to go to their free indoctrination... err education paid by society.

The point is that it is no mistake we have gotten to where we are. The only thing that produces our standard of living is productivity. And with a tax code that punishes people attempting to be productive it is no surprise we have a lack of takers. Our current tax code is a joke and I'd argue needs to be completely burned and re-written. It gives all the incentive to non-productive earners, and punishes those who stick their neck out and dare to produce.

The issues this country faces have nothing to do with "revenue". Our "revenue" today is within a percent of what it was during any of the Clinton -or- Bush years, however our spending has gone through the roof. We have collected approximately 18%+/- of GDP in tax receipts for the last two decades, but the year BO took office under all democrat house and senate our federal spending went from 19% of GDP to over 25% of GDP and has remained there throughout his term.

If we confiscate the entire wealth of the top "1%" we can fund the federal government's deficits for only a few months. Doesn't this say something about the state of our nation?

Thanks for reading.

Classic strawman. Nobody is here is making those claims.

Who said that income over 200K should be taxed at 90%? I was only stating historical facts. I never said tax rates should be that high, and even if they were of course they should be adjusted for inflation.

And rich-loathing? Please. Everyone should have the opportunity to be rich with the right work-ethic, plan, and some luck.

Tax code should favor your example dry-cleaning business, and other small and medium size business. Family business, and even upper middle class such as doctors, lawyers, and Delta pilots (TIC) are just as much victims of the current tax structure as the lower working class.

What isn't right though is today's system where an investment banker or high level executive can pretty much use the system to take YOUR money and make more in a year two (adjusted for inflation course) than a businessperson could make in a lifetime during the 1950's.

The unintended consequence of today's system is that bankers, investment bankers, and many executives are NOT interested in running a long-term, profitable business. They are only interested in stripping assets and paying themselves in the short-term. Then they are barely taxed on their plunder. This is bad for corporations, bad for capitalism, bad for the country, and bad for you.

The evidence supports my claim, not yours. I doubt I will change your mind, but know that you have at least two delusions. First, you think that you have a chance of being one of these super-wealthy. Realistically, you don't, unless you were born into it (Zuckerberg excepted). Second, you think these "job-creators" are reinvesting their wealth in the economy. Statistically, they aren't. Most of the excess money is placed in personal accounts, offshore, and few US jobs come of it.
 
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Crizz,

You do at least have logical view and understanding of tax code and the deficit. I just think your base assumptions are wrong. For example, we do have a revenue problem. We also have a spending problem, as you say.

Don't lose your valid points by making hysterical wingnut assertions, such as saying that that someone who thinks the rich should be taxed more is "rich loathing", or by implying socialism.

OK, done interweb debating for a while.

MF
 

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