135 reg question..................

[Fly91]

Ok....a guy owns his own jet, and owns his own 135 certificate....the plane is on that certificate, they have a POI and its an operating 135 operation......but never ever charters the plane. Literally turns down every charter customer that calls because he simply doesn't REALLY want to charter his plane.........he just flys it 30-50 hours per year for his personal trips.

Question:

He asks me to be his Chief Pilot........is there anything illegal about him actually not chartering the plane out ever.
Or better yet.....can anything come back to me by way of trouble?

I ask because this is a job that just requires my name to be on the paperwork as CP....I'll maybe do a few trips a year for him on my off days. But he's gonna pay me $36,000/yr. So it won't effect my real job in any way.....I was just told I could get in trouble since he will NOT ever charter the plane for real.....that all he wants to do is not lose his 135 certificate for non-use.

Anyone know about this.........????

 

[340drvr]

Sorry, I don't have an answer for your primary question, but...............
Gotta say, the whole annunciator panel just went red with your CP scenario, I'd be extremely cautious with the idea of being listed as CP "on paper" as you say. IMHO, there's no amount of salary whatsoever that would make it reasonable for me to be CP in absentia for a 135 operation. Don't forget that you'd be singularly accountable for any and all violations or infractions under your watch. Hard to keep an eye on "operational control" without day-to-day contact. Maybe that's not what you meant, and, there are certainly situations where the CP is not necessarily flying "the line" all the time, nor is it required to be "in the office" every day, but, there is a fairly high level of watchdog responsibility required to keep yourself and the operation from running afoul of regs.
Maybe you're already aware of all the ramifications, and, I'm not saying this deal might not be workable, just go in with full situational awareness.

 

[SpaceBall 1]

I have never heard of anyone getting in hot water for not flying any charter. My last job was a 91/135 operation where I was the "base manager". It was a large 135 certificate and someone else was the listed CP. We flew very little charter with our jet. Some years it was less than 10 hours charter and we typically flew 400hrs/yr. Never heard anything from the FAA. However, having a 135 certificate # on the tail makes you a target for ramp checks. No big deal, but you just have to make sure that everything is done the right way.

Concerning being employed as the CP, I assume you are being listed as the CP for the 135 certificate. I also assume your "real job" is that of a pilot. There are plenty of other issues in the 135 world that can get you in trouble and lack of flying is the least of my worries. Depending on what your "real job" is, is it worth $36,000/yr to potentially loose your license? I don't know the specifics of the situation, but is the risk worth the reward?

 

[Skippy]

dude-- take the position and the $, do monthly audits to keep ur ass out of hot water-- its not a crime to not make money with a charter business-- the fact that he doesnt want to charter makes no bearing on the operation or business. you are totally and legally fine.
ur welcome,
skippy

 

[Fly91]

Ok, well thanks for the replies. Yes, I have a 91 gig as a pilot.

340dryvr,
The only reason I wasn't too concerned about the plane flying all over is because it doesn't. Just the owners personal flights at about 40 hours a year. So its not like its a 450 hour 135 plane with different pilots flying it. It will be me on some trips and another guy who is an A330 captain at an airline. His trips are scheduled 2 weeks in advance and I would get email notifications of every trip. I would probably put pilots on each flight unless the other captain could handle things.

BUT.......doesn't this mean all pilots who fly this plane also have to go through Indoc and have sim school under this 135 ops approved training program?
Or can the Part 91 flights be anyone who is just sim current or approved by the insurance company? The whole "operational control" thing tells me ALL pilots must do Indoc, drug program, approved training program, etc.....
Is that correct?

Good thing is: I know the POI personally...good guy. I guess I should chat with him about doing this......

 

[bizjet800]

Ok, well thanks for the replies. Yes, I have a 91 gig as a pilot.

340dryvr,
The only reason I wasn't too concerned about the plane flying all over is because it doesn't. Just the owners personal flights at about 40 hours a year. So its not like its a 450 hour 135 plane with different pilots flying it. It will be me on some trips and another guy who is an A330 captain at an airline. His trips are scheduled 2 weeks in advance and I would get email notifications of every trip. I would probably put pilots on each flight unless the other captain could handle things.

BUT.......doesn't this mean all pilots who fly this plane also have to go through Indoc and have sim school under this 135 ops approved training program?
Or can the Part 91 flights be anyone who is just sim current or approved by the insurance company? The whole "operational control" thing tells me ALL pilots must do Indoc, drug program, approved training program, etc.....
Is that correct?

Good thing is: I know the POI personally...good guy. I guess I should chat with him about doing this......

These are good questions. I would say it's ok to have any pilot fly the 91 trips, assuming they are legal to do so. Per A008, the key thing that matters is that the maintenance is kept up as a 135 plane at all times. All the drug, indoc, training program and operational control stuff only matters if the trips are operated part 135.

That said, this smell fishy, doesn't mean its illegal. This guy might be structuring all this for tax purposes. We have an owner who always flies under 135 rules for this reason.

 

[Fly91]

These are good questions. I would say it's ok to have any pilot fly the 91 trips, assuming they are legal to do so. Per A008, the key thing that matters is that the maintenance is kept up as a 135 plane at all times. All the drug, indoc, training program and operational control stuff only matters if the trips are operated part 135.

That said, this smell fishy, doesn't mean its illegal. This guy might be structuring all this for tax purposes. We have an owner who always flies under 135 rules for this reason.

I'm gonna just get the ok from their POI to do this. I'll let him know everything and see what he says. If I need to go to sim training then they will have to pay for it. Indoc, drug test, whatever.....

I'll have to also ask if the plane is being maintained according to 135 regs also....even if the flying part isn't.

I'm gonna cover myself one way or another.

.

 

[ultrarunner]

Who's the CP now? I'd guess I'd start asking some questions before I agreed to be responsible for 'operational control'.

 

[timmay]

I'm gonna just get the ok from their POI to do this. I'll let him know everything and see what he says. If I need to go to sim training then they will have to pay for it. Indoc, drug test, whatever.....

I'll have to also ask if the plane is being maintained according to 135 regs also....even if the flying part isn't.

I'm gonna cover myself one way or another.

.

You will have to be typed and remain current on the aircraft as chief pilot. So plan on being in school twice a year. Also there is a lot of BS involved with a 135 cert. I would find out if it is a basic or full certificate that will effect the amount of work dramatically.

 

[pilotyip]

You need three years of the last six as a PIC under an operating part in order to be CP. The FAA will have to approve anyone listed and CP and if you do not meet the requirements you will need a FAA waiver. It might be good resume fluff, having been CP on a certificate.