135 Days Off

[stratman560]

I am sure everyone on this forum is familiar with the 135.267 (f) which states that the certificate holder must allow for 13-24 hour periods of rest each quarter. I believe sometime back I was told that these rest periods cannot be retro-active and that they must be determined ahead of time. I'm sure this will boil over into a massive debate but does anybody have any cold hard facts on this? Thanks.

 

[CaptSeth]

I believe "ahead of time" would be determined by notification; as long as you are aware before the designated rest period starts that it is one of your required rests, that would satisfy the reg.

This brings to mind a recent job offer I got, for a 135 operator, that offered 6 hard and 2 soft days a month - but that was basically a ruse, they wanted you whenever they needed you. I don't know if that's standard in this part of the industry, but if you compare to XOjet or NJA, or some of the better on-demand operations, I have some issues about that sort of policy. How do you have a life, not to mention how do you satisfy legal rest requirements?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

According to the legal counsel of the FAA, as well as court cases, for rest to occurr, you must know ahead of time, there can't be any "duties" associated with it (pager, answer phone, etc.), and your airline is allowed to call you ONCE during your rest without breaking it. You are also allowed to unplug/shutoff your phone and not answer 'til out of rest.

Many FSDOs, Regions and POIs may tell you that it is OK to do a "lookback", and call it rest when you were on call.

The Regional SWA guy told SWA it was OK to not do the required MX. Where is that guy now?

The FSDO/Region/POI's opinion doesn't count if something goes wrong and/or FAA HQ decides to check out you and your airline. Everyone will be hammered if they don't follow the rules.

cliff
GRB

 

[avbug]

The purpose of prospective rest is to prevent an employer from looking back over the past day and saying, simply because no flying came up, "That was your day off."

The one phone call rule is somewhat misunderstood. What the chief legal counsel said was that one phone call received from the company during the rest period does not interrupt the rest period, nor require resetting the rest period. This should not be construed to mean that only one call is allowed...which is the way many have taken it.

At no time did the Chief Counsel stipulate that only one call is allowed.

 

[340drvr]

That's funny, you said "135" and "Days Off" in the same sentence!
Seriously.....like the other replies above said, a day off, to satisfy the 24 hr. period you asked about, must be announced ahead of time, as in "starting at 5 pm, you have 24 hrs off." But, that does not imply whatsoever that an employer must put all 13 of those required 24 hr. periods on the schedule ahead of time. Conceivably, you could be assigned work (duty and flying) for the first ~77 days of a quarter, at which point you'd have a mandatory "time out" of the next 13 days. (Never happens that way, and, would certainly $uck to have that schedule, but, it would satisfy the legality.)

 

[PilotChapin]

I am sure everyone on this forum is familiar with the 135.267 (f) which states that the certificate holder must allow for 13-24 hour periods of rest each quarter. I believe sometime back I was told that these rest periods cannot be retro-active and that they must be determined ahead of time. I'm sure this will boil over into a massive debate but does anybody have any cold hard facts on this? Thanks.

If you actually find a charter company that gives it's pilots time off please let us know.

 

[gulfstream2345]

Rest time

As one of the inspectors that testified at the SWA hearing, I can tell you that the only way a legal interpretation works for you is at the NTSB hearing.

I worked for a 135 operation that said, "If you haven't heard from us by 7pm then you are off until 7am and if you haven't heard from us by 7pm on Friday, you are off until 7am on Monday."

When I asked what happens if you call me at 8pm and I tell you I can't come in? The answer was I would be fired. Duh!!!

As a former inspector, if the company doesn't give you 13 days, scheduled off, in advance, in a quarter, the company will be violated.

Good riddance to Mr. Stuckey.

 

[pilotyip]

Beer Rule

To determine if had a 24-hour duty free period you have to apply the beer rule. If you were not allowed to drink beer for 16 hours, it was not a duty free 24-hour period. Management has to say you have the next 24 hours off; they can give you this call at any time. They can say take another 14 hours after you are rested and call it 24 hours. Vacation or sick days also fulfill the requirement of a 24 hour duty free period. A company could give you 26 days of vacation running from 3-20-08 to 4-13-08 and then work you with no days off from 01-01-08 to 09-16-08. You can elect to look back, but the company can not assing a look back. BTW USA Jet DA-20 pilots 10 hard days off every 28 days 135 ops, because we care.

 

[bunman45]

Nobody is going to get violated. If that was true, every part 135 operator would already be violated. If you want a real scheduled job, you just need to go 121 or fractional.

 

[Corp Pilot]

The nature of the “daily” rest period is the same, regardless of the applicable subpart. Rest must be 1) continuous, 2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and 3) free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.

Read entire FAA legal interpretation

December 19, 2005
Mr. Michael T. Brazill
Director of Operations
Summit Jet L.L.C.
7144 Republic Airport
Farmingdale, N.Y. 11735
Dear Mr. Brazill:
This letter is in response to your March 12, 2004 request for an interpretation of 14 C.F.R. section 135.267(f) (Subpart F).
Scenario Presented:
1. Summit Jet employs a crew of 2 pilots designated to operate a specific aircraft in it’s Part 135 feet. This crew has been selected by the owner of this aircraft.
2. The crew has been informed by Summit Jet that their expected response time to any potential duty assignment would be “as available” but no longer than 24 hours from time of notification.
3. The crew is notified by means of a 2-way text messaging device that may be turned to “silent” mode during periods of rest. [The] crew is only required to respond to messages if directed to do so in the message. Response to messages can be at [the] crewmember [’s] discretion.
4. The crew has been informed by Summit Jet to make monthly requests for specific “hard time” off as necessary. There has been no restriction on the number of “hard time” off requests made nor any requirement for the crew to request any “hard time” off. Summit Jet would provide replacement crews in the event the crew was unavailable.
5. The crew has averaged 11 days per month as “not scheduled” during a given calendar quarter. The definition of a day “not scheduled” is a day (a period of 24 hours or more) where there are no flights, rest overnights or duty of any kind required by Summit Jet.
Question:
Has the requirement to provide each crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive each in each calendar quarter as defined in FAR 135.267(f)1 been satisfied in the above scenario?
Answer:
We point out some unclear language in the above scenario as well as our understanding of what some of Summit Jet’s language means:
Sentence 1 of Paragraph 3 appears to suggest that a pilot’s rest period is not interrupted because of the pilot’s ability to turn the 2-way text messaging device to “silent” mode during periods of rest. Yet, at the same time, it states in sentence 2 that the crew is “required to respond to messages if directed to do so in the message.” We do not see how, in practice, a pilot may ever exercise the option turn the device to “silent” when any random incoming message could require a response. In addition, if as stated in sentence 3, responses may be at the “crewmember[’s] discretion,” this negates the previous statement that a message may require a crewmember to respond. Thus, it is unclear if a pilot may, in practice, use the “silent” mode to avoid interruptions of rest and if he is required or not required to respond to any message.
Paragraph 4 discusses monthly requests for specific “hard time” off. While the requester does not specify what “hard time” means, we assume that it is not a reference to the 24 hour rest periods in section 135.267(f). Rather, it may be a reference to personal time to be used for vacation or other reason.
Paragraph 5 states that the crew has “averaged 11 days per month as “not scheduled” during a given calendar quarter,” and defines the “not scheduled” day as a period of 24 or more hours in which there are no flights, rest overnights or duty of any kind required by Summit Jet. We cannot tell from this average number what actual number of “not scheduled” days each of Summit Jet’s pilots, subject to the requirement in section 135.267(e), receives. We also understand that Summit Jet considers the “not scheduled” days as 24 consecutive hour rest periods.
The nature of the “daily” rest period is the same, regardless of the applicable subpart. Rest must be 1) continuous, 2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and 3) free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise. See e.g., April 29, 2005 Letter to Candace K. Kolander, from Rebecca B. MacPherson, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division [2005-5] (copy enclosed); and Oct. 29, 2002 Letter to James W. Johnson, from Donald P. Byrne, Assistant Chief Counsel, Regulations Division [2003-6] (copy enclosed). In addition, the nature of the 24-hour rest period is the same as the nature of the “daily” rest period.
Under the facts provided, it is unclear to us if a pilot may ever put the messaging device in “silent” mode to avoid interruption of rest, as it is unclear if he is required or not required to respond to any message. If under Summit Jet’s practice the pilot is obligated to respond to a message during the 24-hour rest period (or “not scheduled” day), thus pilots cannot use the “silent” feature in that period, that so-called “rest period” is neither uninterrupted nor continuous. It is also not free from all restraint. Therefore, it would not satisfy the nature of rest test.
Finally, the regulation requires the certificate holder to “provide each flight crewmember at least 13 rest periods of at least 24 consecutive hours.” (Emphasis added.) Summit Jet has stated high average numbers of “not scheduled” days, but we cannot tell if there are pilots for whom the average number disguises receipt of less than the regulatory minimum of 13 days. The relevant showing that Summit Jet must make under the regulation is that each flight crewmember actually receives at least 13 rest periods in every quarter. If Summit Jet cannot do so, it has not satisfied the regulation’s plain requirement.
This letter was prepared by Joseph A. Conte, Manager, Operations Law Branch and Constance M. Subadan, Attorney, Operations Law Branch. It was coordinated with the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters.
Sincerely,
Rebecca B. MacPherson
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations Division
Enclosures
The FAA has not published this interpretation in the Federal Register for pre-issuance comments because it does not present a new issue. This is consistent with the Dec. 16, 2005 Federal Register Notice of Reinstatement of 1980 Public Comment Procedures for Requests for Interpretation of the Flight Time, Rest and Duty Period Regulations (70 Fed. Reg. 74863). That Notice states that Federal Register public comment procedures would be subject to three limitations: 1) pre-issuance comments would be solicited for requests presenting new issues, i.e., not for repetitive type questions; 2) even for new issues, the Agency may issue an interpretation immediately, subject to post-issuance comments; and 3) the Agency reserves the right to modify or discontinue the use of the procedures, at the Office of the Chief Counsel’s election.